• PhilCF
    31
    Socrates.

    But hang on a minute, how the hell can you dismiss “the Master of all who Know” with such contempt?

    Socrates was known as the “First Philosopher,” as well as the “Gadfly” (A small fly that irritates the skin of livestock) as he was seen as a pestilence. He used to hang in public meeting places and encourage people to question the laws and rules of the land. He wasn’t malicious or directive - he wanted to culture a civil disobedience by encouraging people to examine the lives that the world’s first great democracy was forcing them to live. He taught Plato who went on to teach Aristotle who then gave Alexander the Great the skills to take over the largest empire in the history of mankind. Socrates was neither Athenian or Greek, but preferred to refer to himself as a “citizen of the world.” Socrates was enlightened and a master of deductive reasoning. He invented a system of questioning that later became known as “Socratic Logic,” which is still in use by lawyers to this day to test the veracity of any and all statements.

    Aristotle was the greatest mind of the age. When 12 years old, Alexander the Great tamed and rode the wild horse “Bucephulas.” His father Philip of Macedonia knew then his son was special and was going to need to learn under someone even wiser if he was going to realise his full potential and build a great kingdom of his own. Philip chose Aristotle. Aristotle practically invented logic, was the first great experimental scientist, with physics, astronomy, embryology, meteorology and more. He also pioneered ethics and that the greatest virtue comes from moderation (an incorrect thought, but we will not focus on this now).

    Question: How can Socrates we say with absolute surety that> Aristotle?
    Answer: By their words and deeds.

    Plato’s Apology recounts the trial of Socrates. He was prosecuted by the a jury of 500 Athenians on charges of impiety and corrupting the youth. Representing himself, Socrates was asked to renounce his Philosophy, to which he refused, saying, “an unexamined life is not worth living.”

    He was found guilty for his crimes and sentenced to death. When given the choice of quietly leaving the city and going into exile, he refused. He told them to give him the deadly hemlock.

    He did this because he knew that if he ran, if would prove that everything he had taught us would be undermined. He would be undermined. He knew that the soul was immortal, and that he’d led a “good life” - what on earth did he have to fear? Therefore Socrates not only taught us how to live, but also how to die.

    When Philip of Macedonia sacked Aristotle’s rebellious hometown of Stagira, Aristotle fled. He was not brave - perhaps you could even label him a coward.

    Aristotle once famously said: “There is no greater trait in man than courage, behind honor.” In running, he proved that he was neither courageous or noble and therefore didn’t have the sense of mind to live by his convictions. When Socrates life was threatened, he willingly drank the hemlock. When Aristotle was faced with a similar fate, he fled.
  • Shamshir
    855
    Socrates was known as the “First Philosopher”PhilCF
    That would be Thales, and even that's a stretch.

    He also pioneered ethics and that the greatest virtue comes from moderation (an incorrect thought, but we will not focus on this now).PhilCF
    Very doubtful. Perhaps you mean 'championed' ethics?
    Also - please elaborate why the thought is supposedly incorrect.

    He did this because he knew that if he ran, if would prove that everything he had taught us would be undermined. He would be undermined. He knew that the soul was immortal, and that he’d led a “good life” - what on earth did he have to fear? Therefore Socrates not only taught us how to live, but also how to die.PhilCF
    Are you sure? Maybe he was simply old and tired.
  • PhilCF
    31
    Yes... He was the pioneer of ethics - everyone with a base level of Philosophical understanding is aware of this fact.

    Please research "the Master of all Who Know"... Don't make me do your learning for you.
  • Shamshir
    855
    He certainly wasn't - not even amongst the Greeks. Hippocrates who precedes Aristotle had installed a certain code of ethics for physicians to uphold - a code which he took from the neighbouring tribe of Traks.

    So ethics were certainly a subject of thought and discourse long before Aristotle.

    That said, will you elaborate on the other bit?
  • PhilCF
    31
    It's pedantic... "pioneer" "harbinger" "Piledrive" "duck-quack" - It doesn't make any difference what word you use. Whether you research and bring technical chronological excellence into the debate - this doesn't make you any wiser. To suggest that Aristotle didn't have an absolutely TITANIC in the field of ethics and in this sense YES, he was a "PIONEER." Thumb through Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics and then give me the name of a Philosopher who did it better.

    This is what is wrong with Philosophy. You get very smart men wrestling over stupid, pedantic details so they can say "There I gotcha" - This is just an egoic play. "Took out that guy on the web... he didn't even know whence Ethics sprung from." It's nonsense.

    Now... What other bit do you want me to elucidate?
  • Shamshir
    855
    Thumb through Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics and then give me the name of a Philosopher who did it better.PhilCF
    Perhaps you mean 'championed' ethics?Shamshir

    Really?

    It doesn't make any difference what word you use.PhilCF
    Then why not rewrite your title in to 'Who was the bigger shoehorn'?
  • PhilCF
    31
    Oh god... Wrestle the facts, stop peddling pedantry. You will improve as a philosopher. Debate the central tenet or don't waste the megabytes.

    Let me start you off. "Aristotle was every bit as great as Socrates because... " - If you aren't willing to go there, don't bother posting on this thread.
  • Tzeentch
    3.3k
    But hang on a minute, how the hell can you dismiss “the Master of all who Know” with such contempt?PhilCF

    "The Master of all who Know".

    That title strikes me as sarcastic. Men like Socrates and Plato questioned man's ability to know. If this is what they called Aristotle, then it should be read as "Master of the ignorant".
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