• TheMadFool
    5.8k
    I hope this is the right sub-forum.

    It was the other day and I was on my way to get some money x dollars. I waited for the other person who was supposed to give it to me. I waited for 6 hours to get my hands on the money.

    I then thought about the worth of the x dollars and began to do my own arithmetic on it. It turns out that I was paid 4 dollars per hour and that's below the minimum wage in America.

    The point is not about how I was in the red in the deal but rather about how I assessed the situation. I was using money to calculate the value of my time. This is of course nothing new to most people- everyone knows time is money.

    It seems that everything in the present worldview of people revolves around money. You want to read a book, how much does it cost? You want to learn philosophy, how much does it cost? You want to send astronauts to Mars, how much does it cost? So and so forth.

    This is not a deep transcendental truth, obscure and difficult to see and comprehend. In fact it's an unspoken rule of the great social game we call civilization. Everyone knows it.

    Is this situation acceptable? Can we do better than monetize everything I.e. is every hole you see a pussy? Is the alternative worse? Can we improve on this?
  • RobertMetz
    8
    I think the conversation has to be shifted away from "Money". I believe what hurts or makes people feel that the 'system' has done them a disservice is that people would like to solve problems out of their control. They feel as if they don't have the material goods which will satisfy them finally, once and for all!
    Instead I think it'd be useful to think on an individual basis and assess what am I capable as an individual? Firstly if you live in a first world country, we typically have the welfare to provide basic necessities such as food, water, shelter. Do we need more? No. However this doesn't satisfy anyone, people like to view goods as status and or a sign of progression. If an individual has no organization to command and or money to spend on causes he deems valuable then you must ask when then can I do to better either myself if that's what I choose to focus on or if I can better my community. This may be as simple as organizing community clean ups or simply doing cleaning up yourself. It fosters a host of great benefits to the world. Inspiration, sense of community, the neighbourhood now looks clean and desirable. The individual needs to recognize and deal with issues on their own personal level.
  • TheMadFool
    5.8k
    I'm concerned about the consequences. If value is measured in terms of money then everything is on sale. All you need to do is agree on a price. If I'm not mistaken even God is on sale now.
  • TheMadFool
    5.8k
    No. However this doesn't satisfy anyone, people like to view goods as status and or a sign of progression.RobertMetz

    Do you think that's healthy? I don't have anything against rich people but it's the way the system works that even the havenots share the belief that anything can be bought. This induces moral corruption and I'm not saying I'm not guilty of being bought, sold, or bribed. However, it would be easier for us if money wasn't the metric of value.

    Anyway now that I realize it no alternative would work because anything that measures value would be susceptible to corruption. Thanks.
  • RobertMetz
    8
    If we were to say that we attribute value to services and goods, then wouldn't it be that its proportionate what we all receive for the skills we provide? Man is always corruptible even without dollars, leverage is always there in some form or another.

    Everything may be for sale as well, but what difference does it really make and what are the social factors that go into the purchasing of these goods? For instance I believe it'd be a great service if someone were to buy and release the knowledge within Vaticans archives sealed off to the public. Wouldn't it be great to purchase the informations sealed off from the world? I think regardless of money, people would chase status and material goods regardless of if, price were associated with that good. Money doesn't produce moral corruption it just makes it more in plain sight, no?
  • unenlightened
    4.7k
    Anyway now that I realize it no alternative would work because anything that measures value would be susceptible to corruption. Thanks.TheMadFool

    It's more so that any metric of value would be money. Rather the way that anything used to measure length becomes a ruler, whether it is a thumb, a foot, a chain, or the distance light travels in a year.

    But the odd thing about money as a metric is how very elastic it is. In times of plenty things are thrown away that at another time would be of huge value. I am as we speak building up a store of nice plump rats in anticipation of the Brexit food shortages - the price can only go up.
  • RobertMetz
    8
    ha I love it! Happy stockpiling!
  • Bitter Crank
    8.7k
    ↪Bitter Crank I'm concerned about the consequences. If value is measured in terms of money then everything is on sale. All you need to do is agree on a price. If I'm not mistaken even God is on sale now.TheMadFool

    Something as specific as "money" or "currency" isn't the problem. It's a whole economic system that is the problem. Capitalism (which has been developing for the last 4 or 5 centuries) is that system. Apart from capitalism, hunter-gatherers were organized into field hands and started cultivating grain and living together in fixed places around 10,000 - 12,000 years ago. Land became a thing to possess, produce from the land became a thing to tax for the benefit of the organizing state, and so on and so forth.

    If we want to escape the whole money, economic exploitation, and burdens of living in a mass society, we will have to return to a hunting-gathering culture where possessions are minimalist, place is not fixed, and society consists of maybe 20 people. It was a good way of life -- it lasted at least 100,000 years, and in the process didn't have much effect on either the planet or it's flora and fauna--including the hunter-gatherers.

    Unfortunately, the boat that takes us back to living the simplicity of hunter-gatherers left the dock thousands of years ago. We're stuck in a world where everything is for sale. We can't escape it, but we don't have to be utterly debased by it either. It's one thing to buy a $50 book so that you can learn from it, and something else to buy a $100 book which will convey status, sitting on your coffee table. It's one thing to buy a good pair of shoes so your feet don't hurt; it's something else to buy expensive shoes to walk all over other people. And so on.

    Just live as simply and authentically as you are able.
  • NOS4A2
    3.2k
    Money is one of the most important inventions in human history. Though not all people believe in the same god or obey the same government, they are all willing to use the same money.
  • Perdidi Corpus
    30
    Yes, markets do provide a way to compare what is otherwise seemingly uncomparible.
    Another way which is quite hard to implement right now... though in the tech age... who knows?... is through measuring how much closer you get to be to some objective by owning whatever it is you seek to measure. We already do this somewhat but the process is one which relies heavily on intuition (which can certainly be honed).
  • TheMadFool
    5.8k
    Just live as simply and authentically as you are able.Bitter Crank

    :up:
  • TheMadFool
    5.8k
    the price can only go up.unenlightened

    This very deep. I don't know why but it means something very important.
  • I like sushi
    2.3k
    That isn’t true. The fact that you think like this doesn’t mean the rest of the world view the world as different sized piles of money.

    Ffs do something with yourself. No excuses are good enough as a rebuttal (including dead wives, children or debilitating diseases). I don’t care for sob stories and those who LIVE a life don’t waste much time reciting the woes of their life at any given opportunity.

    EVERYTHING has a cost. Money is a trivial cost that can be circumnavigated.
  • unenlightened
    4.7k
    This very deep. I don't know why but it means something very important.TheMadFool

    What I meant to allude to in a light way, is how things that have no monetary value, like the atmosphere, or climate stability, or the Amazon jungle, or rats, lack value because we lack imagination and cannot see how they connect to us. I can imagine the value of a beef farm well enough ( and value is always an act of imagination) all that yummy meat, jungle though seems useless. Unfortunately, we have become hypnotised by money even when rationally we know it cannot measure value properly. Money says dump your rubbish in the sea, because no one lives there so no one cares.
  • Judaka
    486

    Money is important to most people but money does not only represent material wealth. Travelling, hobbies and the freedom to do what you want to do besides also having what you want to have. It equates to social status, protects you from illness and injury and the list goes on. Even if you don't want money, just having it could mean you have to work less or take a job which is more enjoyable without worrying about the salary. It protects you from bad bosses and nasty co-workers, worries about the sustainability of your lifestyle.

    So, it is less so the superficial and materialistic that care about money but just the sensible. Though that doesn't mean everyone cares about it the same.
  • niki wonoto
    4
    yes, sadly true, nowadays it's all about money
    Capitalism gets way out of control
    it's a depressing reality
  • TheMadFool
    5.8k
    What I meant to allude to in a light way, is how things that have no monetary value, like the atmosphere, or climate stability, or the Amazon jungle, or rats, lack value because we lack imagination and cannot see how they connect to us. I can imagine the value of a beef farm well enough ( and value is always an act of imagination) all that yummy meat, jungle though seems useless. Unfortunately, we have become hypnotised by money even when rationally we know it cannot measure value properly. Money says dump your rubbish in the sea, because no one lives there so no one cares.unenlightened

    :clap:
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