• Amity
    606
    The attack at the International Airport was way worse than the attack on the legislative council building since the former one involved attacking innocent mainland tourists. They even attacked a police officer till he was knocked down and forced to draw a gun to back off the crowd. Such acts will work in favour of CCP and give them reasons to send in army for maintaining " public order "Wittgenstein

    About this attack: I watched a 13min video on Channel 4 news last night - we were pre-warned about the violence.
    https://www.channel4.com/news/hong-kong-violent-clashes-paralyse-airport-for-second-day

    Report by Jonathan Miller

    Hong Kong airport is once again paralysed by protesters who want to see their freedoms protected. Freedoms that they were promised over 20 years ago, when the UK handed Hong Kong back to China.

    But once again, what began as a peaceful demonstration has ended in chaotic violence.

    Will China step in? US President Donald Trump has just announced on social media that his own intelligence services have told him that the Chinese government is moving troops to the border.
    — Jonathan Miller Ch4 news
  • Wittgenstein
    170

    Since HK was ruled by the British for over 150 years, they have left behind their legacy and cultural imprints on the minds of hk people. This isn't the primary cause however.
    It goes much deeper.There were around 2.5 to 3 million people in HK in the 1960s but the culture revolution caused a lot of chinese to escape to HK, which was a British colony then. The immigrants had inquired a hatred towards the communist China even though the British treated them as second class citizens.This feeling was transmitted from one generation to another and the sudden economic development of HK compared to mainland in the 1980s to 1990s further strengthened their conviction that China is a terrible place.

    Ethnically, 92 percent of hkers are han chinese but after a long time, cognitive dissonance will cause people to confuse the politics of mailand with mainlanders.Most of the youngsters were toddlers when the handover took place and they have difficulty identifying with a Chinese identity. It is partly due to the fault of the education system too. Chinese history is not taught as a compulsory subject in Hk and most of the hkers are not connected with it. On the other hand, they can easily identify with western cultures, particularly the younger generation.

    China in the present day is a capitalist dictatorship and they haven't improved much to win the hearts of hker, recently the "education" camps set in Xinjiang province reflect poorly on China's regard for human rights.
  • Amity
    606

    Thank you so much for that explanation and insight into the cultural and historical background.
    I understand better what you meant by accepting a Chinese identity.
    The new generation, in particular, are unlikely to surrender their freedoms without a fight.
    And they have developed their own multi-varied identities.
    I think that is right.
  • Wittgenstein
    170

    What do you think of this proposal ?

    The UK should give Hong Kong citizens full UK nationality as a means of reassurance amid the current standoff with Beijing, the chair of the influential Commons foreign affairs committee has argued.

    Tom Tugendhat said this should have happened to people in the formerly British-ruled territory in 1997, when it was handed back to Chinese control, and that doing so now would reassure Hong Kong’s people that they were supported by the UK.

    It can solve the problem, as most of the protestors who are young and concerned with their futures. They fear living in an orwellian state.They were waving British colonial flags and even the US flags recently during the protests.This shows that they are willing to move to democratic countries and want to be live under their rules.I don't think it will happen as the current government in the UK is anti immigration and offering British passport to 7 million hker may be opposed on many other grounds.
  • Amity
    606
    I don't think it will happen as the current government in the UK is anti immigration and offering British passport to 7 million hker may be opposed on many other grounds.Wittgenstein

    I think you have an excellent grasp of the current situation.
    It will not happen. Too much too late.
  • Wittgenstein
    170

    I hope that l am proven wrong. The more one thinks about the current situation in hk, the more depressing it gets.
  • Amity
    606

    Yes. I think many will be in a state of depression, if not worse.
    What kind of philosophical view would see you through ?
    West ? East ? Ancient or modern ?
  • Evil
    133
    China in the present day is a capitalist dictatorship and they haven't improved much to win the hearts of hker, recently the "education" camps set in Xinjiang province reflect poorly on China's regard for human rightsWittgenstein

    Also the social credit system: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
  • frank
    3k
    Though support might be scattered globally, I can tell you that these young people in Hong Kong are being watched by the young people around me here and not just in a supportive role of "their" desire for freedom, though that is where my energies lay but rather a possible playbook for their own future.ArguingWAristotleTiff

    Hope springs eternal.
  • StreetlightX
    3.9k
    This is one of the few clear instances where a politics of 'identity' is clearly not in any way at stake: there is no question here of 'identifying' with the mainland or 'identifying' with some ephemeral spirit of Hong Kong. The stakes here are differential and clear: political and juridical autonomy from the state apparatus of the PRC. 'Identity' is secondary, derivative, and mystifying. Analysing the situation in those terms is to lose sight of it entirely. China, of course, would like to frame it in those terms, precisely because it allows it not to talk of the real stakes involved - much better to appeal to some mythical sense of the 'Chinese identity' which HK is supposed to partake in.

    A nice lesson in the uselessness - or even harmfulness - of identity politics.
  • hairy belly
    32


    The more one thinks about the current situation in HK, the more one realizes that there's nothing really new here.

    The stakes here are differentialStreetlightX

    Like "Oh, we don't wanna be like you, chinese worker, student, businessman. Our fight is not your fight and your fight is not our fight"? This kind of differential?
  • Evil
    133
    I agree with you.

    @Wittgenstein is defending the Chinese government's actions in an underhanded way.
  • Wittgenstein
    170

    Identity politics isn't the main reason behind the protests but it is hidden deep within the movement.I am very pessimistic with regards to the success of this movement. It is is absurd to suggest that a bunch of teenagers are going to persuade the powerful CCP party leaders to change their minds.
    I doubt the sincerity of most western leaders willingness to solve HK's problem. Words of support don't mean anything unless there is some action.
  • hairy belly
    32
    it is hidden deep within the movementWittgenstein

    It's not hidden, it sets the tone. The only way it is hidden is by being hidden in plain sight. And it's hidden in plain sight precisely because it's the framework. Take as an example the user above who chastised identity politics and then wrote "The stakes here are differential and clear: political and juridical autonomy from the state apparatus of the PRC". As if that's any different from what localists say.

    Also, it's not "a bunch of teenagers". The demonstrations are quite massive and there was a big general strike (at last). It's not a cohesive movement either, but the tone is set by localists and deluded liberals. Which is also the position promoted by USA and Co. The CCP couldn't be more satisfied with that. Also, it couldn't care less if Hong Kong were to turn into a full-blown pseudo-democratic liberal representative system. The dynamics between the elites and the working people would remain pretty much the same in HK. The reason the CCP does not want that is because it would disturb the dynamics between itself and the mass of the working people in the mainland. Which apparently should be the aim and the framework of the movement. But it's not. And most probably it won't be in the foreseeable future. So, even in case that protests escalate, the movement will just be crashed in a few days, some people will die and all will return to normal until next time.
  • frank
    3k
    Why does the Chinese govt put out false propaganda?
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