• StreetlightX
    4.3k
    Dunno what they expected with the mask ban. Watch them use this to (more) violently crack down.
  • Benkei
    2.1k
    Dunno what they expected with the mask ban. Watch them use this to (more) violently crack down.StreetlightX

    They expected the protesters not to listen of course, precisely to get the excuse they needed to crack down on them. BBC is already on board I see with calling it riots. Violent protest can still be protest. It's the continuation of politics by different means (pace Von Clausewitz).

    I'm wondering what a sensible way forward is, strategically speaking, for the protesters.

    Maybe they should invoke the right to self-determination? Hong Kong has a different political system, the majority speaks a different language than mainland China and the cultural differences are laid bare in the recent protests.
  • StreetlightX
    4.3k
    I'm wondering what a sensible way forward is, strategically speaking, for the protesters.Benkei

    Not being there, it's hard to presume to say. But what they've been doing - the relative discipline of sustained, unyielding demand(s) - seems to be working very well. The mask ban - as much as it is a cynical exercise to incite violence - seems to me to speak to an underlying desperation and insecurity on the part of the authorities (which can cut either way - the desperate are the most dangerous).
  • Benkei
    2.1k
    Sometimes a bit of distance actually helps but I'm stumped anyways.

    I thought there was a mask ban but here's Carrie Lam's veiled threat:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/08/hong-kongs-carrie-lam-refuses-to-rule-out-asking-china-for-help-to-quell-protests
  • Benkei
    2.1k
    And it must be said: at least the US is doing something with its Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act. Which is more than can be said of the Netherlands or the EU at this point.
  • ssu
    1.6k
    Nothing against Netherlands (and not much against the EU), but you are right. With all it's shortcomings and hypocrisy, the US still stands out as a beacon for democracy and freedom. Sort of.
  • frank
    3.5k
    Not for much longer.
  • StreetlightX
    4.3k
    Required Reading.

    http://chuangcn.org/2019/09/three-months-of-insurrection/

    "Years from now, we will continue to look back and marvel at all the incredible things that emerged in response to the concrete problems that insurgents have faced over the course of the past three months.

    In response to teenagers having no homes to return to because they were practically “disowned” by their parents for attending demonstrations and remaining on the streets when states of emergency were declared, people created a network of open apartments to which young partisans could retreat and stay temporarily. In response to minibuses, buses, and subway trains no longer being safe for escaping protesters, carpool networks were formed via Telegram to “pick kids up from school.” We encountered elderly drivers who didn’t even know how to operate Telegram, but who drove repeatedly around the “hot spots” reported by the radio news, watching for running protesters who needed a quick ride out of danger.

    In response to young people not having any work or enough money to buy food at the front lines, working people prepared supplies of supermarket and restaurant coupons and handed these out to people in gear before large-scale confrontations. This remarkable fact is often used by conservatives to suggest that foreign powers are behind this “color revolution,” because… where did all the money for these coupons come from? There has to be somebody bankrolling this! They cannot fathom that any worker would be willing to reach into his own pockets in order to help a person that he does not know.

    In response to the suffering, trauma, and sleeplessness induced by long-term exposure to tear gas and police violence, whether experienced first-hand or via graphic live feeds, support networks appeared offering counsel and care. In response to kids not having enough time to do their homework because they are out on the streets all night, Telegram channels appeared offering free tutoring services. In response to students “not being able to have an education” because they were on strike, people organized seminars on all manner of political subjects at schools that were sympathetic to the cause and also in public spaces."
  • ssu
    1.6k
    Don't be too pessimistic.
  • frank
    3.5k
    Don't be too pessimistic.ssu

    Ok. I was just thinking this morning about how the ground is always moving under our feet. If we don't want it to move, we cringe and scream that the sky is falling as if that might make it stop. It's a cry to the great parent in the sky to save us.

    But when we want it to move so it tears down the evil constructions we see before us, our hearts burst with joy to see the wrath of the gods come down upon the wicked, those assholes are getting what they deserve. Woo hoo!

    Or maybe they aren't evil. It's just that their time has come. They lived and now they return to the dusty earth from which they rose. Amen.
1234Next
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.