• creativesoul
    5.9k
    Now, I've got work to do. My life depends on it.

    Put forth a creature and something for it to become conscious of. Then, figure out exactly what that takes. Re-read what I've offered here.

    Toodles.

    :smile:
  • Terrapin Station
    11.7k
    Within oneself sounds geographical, are we talking about a location in space? Or does the word "within" have an archaic sense related to the association of a self with a biological enclosed system (body), the primal idea of space? Internality is a concept that needs some explanation.unreadpages

    I'd say that we're definitely talking about something "geographical" as you put it. Yes, it's a spatio-temporal location. Namely, the spatio-temporal location of your brain. Not that everything your brain does is mentality, but all mentality is something that your brain does. Your brain has a location.
  • creativesoul
    5.9k
    Thinking of trees includes trees. Trees are not in our heads. If part of thoughts are not in our heads, then it makes no sense whatsoever to say that thought has a spatiotemporal location(in the head/brain). Brains are necessary but insufficient for thinking about trees, as are trees.

    Thought/belief is not the sort of thing that has a precise spatiotemporal location. All consciousness is thought/belief, so...
  • Basko
    13
    Sorry for no replies, i had so many things to do ..

    Consciousness = the ability to form, have, and/or hold thought/belief and all that that entailscreativesoul

    Thought/belief consists of mental correlations, associations, and/or connections drawn between different things.creativesoul

    If Consciousness = the ability to form - have and/or hold - Thought/belief, does that mean that the unconscious processes cannot form Thought/belief ?

    Thinking is by definition a conscious activity, is "the action of using one's mind to produce thoughts" - Merriam-Webster.com.
    There must be a subject who is thinking, the same as there must be a subject who is experiencing. There is a theory that claims there can be unconscious thoughts - Unconscious thought theory (UTT) - but i think thoughts isn't the right word, it's more like unconscious processing.

    My point is, Thinking is a conscious activity and thoughts are "flow of ideas", ofcs based upon brain prior structures but none the less conscious "flow of ideas" - consciousness may interfere -, what we can call unconscious thoughts are just unconscious brain processing and calling those processing "thoughts" is like saying your computer think bcs he process information.

    But beliefs are not the same as thoughts. If you are born in a catholic - or other religion - family and since the young age your family teach you that Jesus is God, your unconscious mind will form new brain structures and will hold the statement "Jesus is God" for true. Your belief in God is just some brain structures developed by unconscious processes through repetition. The same as your environment build the belief in God, another environment can make you doubt about that belief.
    I see beliefs like mental principles which we hold through time, theses principles can emerge from unconscious processes or conscious "flow of ideas".
  • Basko
    13
    It does equal awareness, but not necessarily self-awareness.luckswallowsall

    I will copy-paste what i wrote before in page 1 ..

    Awareness : Having or showing realization, perception, or knowledge

    Imagine we understand what consciousness really is and how it works, then we proceed to create a artificial life form with our understanding. As we build we realize we don't have enough money to build it like we wanted so we chose to decrease dramatically the cognitive abilities, the memory storage and the capacity of our AI to form a new structures.
    Once we finished, we decide to study it, by various tests, to see how our AI work. As we test our AI we remark that it can't realize what is happening due to very low cognitive abilities, it cannot form enough knowledge too bcs of very low memory storage, and bcs of low capacity of forming new structures it perceive - organization of sensory inputs - very little about the world. Our AI experience - the rough sensory inputs - without realization of experiencing and without realization of oneself identity, our AI is not aware - at least by the definition above.
    Ofcs is an imagined scenario, maybe what we call consciousness need some good level of cognitive abilities, memory, perception and maybe more ..
  • Basko
    13
    So many questions, so little answers, the main problem dealing with theses type of questions is the lack of practical experiences :confused:
  • Basko
    13
    Within oneself sounds geographical, are we talking about a location in space? Or does the word "within" have an archaic sense related to the association of a self with a biological enclosed system (body), the primal idea of space?unreadpages

    Well i think the "oneself" is more like an idea a person have about themselves, a Self-concept which include probably the association with the body.
  • Basko
    13
    is it necessary that I am something that can be referred to as "what"?unreadpages

    If "What am i ?" isn't the right question to ask, then what question is most appropriate to ask ..?
  • Basko
    13
    Becoming aware that one is conscious requires complex natural/common language. Being conscious does not.creativesoul

    :up: :up: :clap:
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