• praxis
    6.5k
    27lvd2us_halima-aden_625x300_30_April_19.jpg

    Sports Illustrated announced that they’ll be featuring a model wearing a hijab and burkini in this years swimsuit issue. I imagine that most liberal minded people like myself see this as generally progressive and not shocking or contradictory. I assume that SI is trying to capture headlines and maybe more of a liberal demographic, which may increase marketshare, and also perhaps making a bit of a political statement. More generously, SI may be attempting to cast Muslim women in a positive aesthetic light in oder to possibly counteract recent escalation of anti-muslim sentiment in the country.

    The curious part of the story is the conservative reaction, at least in the conservative news media, who find it horrifying, an unresolvable contradiction, and another example of liberal identity politics.

    Dr. Zuhdi Jasser (R), president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, described Sports Illustrated‘s featuring of a model wearing a burkini and hijab as left-wing “insanity” that glorifies an Islamist “honor culture.”

    Jasser determined, “Our pop culture seems to be completely backwards in its principles. If this is about women’s freedom and equality, this is not the way to get there.”

    “It proves that their attention to Muslim issues is simply them being the victims,” deduced Jasser of left-wing interest in Muslims. “It’s simply them trying to absolve themselves of the guilt that the know they have, which is a guilt of bigotry of low expectations, of exploitation of Muslims for their own sort of identity politics, and you see them do this with every minority group that they claim to take under their wing. They ignore what’s happening internally.”

    Probably a compelling narrative for those inclined to adopt it. My take on it is simply that those conditioned to view Muslims as the enemy are unable to see this in an aesthetic light.
  • BC
    13.6k
    I personally don't much care what Sports Illustrated does with its pages, but one can imagine several low cost PR INTENDED benefits: it looks progressive, it seems slightly fashion forward, it probably appeals to a certain 'hip' demographic, and so on. I doubt if mainline Islamic spokesmen are going to line up and hail the photo as a long sought-after victory of western acceptance.

    What I see happening in the only Islamic community that I am familiar with, the one in Minnesota, is that older women continue to wear head to toe covering, but are gradually relinquishing the ubiquitous burgundy or black version. The robe has gotten a bit shorter too, so that it doesn't drag on the street/floor/dirt. The fashion forward women are wearing over-all covers with dramatic patterns and lighter fabrics. Some younger women have stopped wearing the long robe, and may or may not have a head covering (this would be street wear, not going-to-mosque outfits.

    In other words, cultural adjustments are being made gradually, which is what one would expect.
  • Deleteduserrc
    2.8k
    It's a strangely structured OP. A cynical commenter might note that Jasser's take makes up ~half the post, and well over half of the argumentation.
  • praxis
    6.5k


    Granted. Anything else?
  • praxis
    6.5k
    it probably appeals to a certain 'hip' demographicBitter Crank

    It appeals to me and I’m far from hip.

    Are you saying that you find it unappealing? (Sexuality aside)
  • BC
    13.6k
    @Praxis: The overall effect is quite attractive.

    It wasn't all that long ago that American women were a lot more covered up for public swimming than they are now, to maintain 'modesty'. Less than a century ago, it wasn't considered appropriate for men to be naked above the waist in public. It was the arrival of the 'itsy bittsy teeny weeny' French imported women's bikini that changed all that. The Australian Speedo bikini did the same for men.
  • BC
    13.6k
    It appeals to me and I’m far from hip.praxis

    Not the picture per se (which is attractive and features a voluptuous pose); the hip part is the decision to run the picture as part fo the swimsuit issue. I can see hip people (and sans hipness types like yourself, as self described) approving of the decision apart from the picture itself.
  • Deleteduserrc
    2.8k
    Granted. Anything else?praxis

    Jasser's a Muslim of course. So he's probably not conditioned to view Muslims as the enemy. But I feel like you must know he's a Muslim, so the OP is confusing to me. (unless ...[cynical take on the op])
  • Sir2u
    3.5k
    Sports Illustrated announced that they’ll be featuring a model wearing a hijab and burkini in this years swimsuit issue.praxis

    Very confusing. I really can't imagine a lot of Muslim men lining up to buy it though. Unless they are a bunch of hypocrites.
    Supposedly Muslim women are not supposed to wear clothes that demark the shape of the body. So how does SI think this will help race relations? I think it might make a lot of men interested in finding out what is under those hijabs, then there will be problems.
  • praxis
    6.5k


    I ‘approve’ because, to my mind, it attempts to transcend cultural/political divides via aesthetics, if only unintentionally.
  • praxis
    6.5k


    In America we are all Americans so we are incapable of seeing any other American as an enemy. Is that the sort of logic you’re using?

    FYI: this topic is posted in the current events forum. I would have posted it in the lounge but topics tend to get very little attention there.
  • Deleteduserrc
    2.8k
    In America we are all Americans so we are incapable of seeing any other American as an enemy. Is that the sort of logic you’re using?praxis

    It doesn't look like my logic, no.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    Sports Illustrated has been officially lame for decades.
  • praxis
    6.5k


    For a while there was a Muslim woman who went to my gym. The spin room is one of the more isolated parts of the gym, between spin classes, and I once walked in while she was praying (or whatever) in the direction of Mecca there. I really didn’t mind at all, not that it would have mattered if I did, but it did feel somewhat alien. I’ve had very little exposure to people of the Muslim faith in my life.

    On another occasion, I swam in an adjacent lane to her in the pool. She was wearing a burkini, and quite frankly, it looked more like she was a fish trying to escape a net than a person swimming. I found it disturbing, probably because I’ve swam, surfed, and found freedom and escape in water all my life. To see someone intentionally constraint themselves in this way was hard to grasp and hard to witness. Also, I must admit, some dark thought of potential terrorism entered my mind while I swam. Irrational to be sure, but there nevertheless.

    My wife, who had chatted with her on occasion at the gym, mentioned that this woman had recently discovered burkinis and thoroughly enjoyed the experience of ‘swimming’ in them, a joy that was previously unattainable.
  • praxis
    6.5k


    Okay, it’s settled, a Muslim can see another Muslim as an enemy.
  • praxis
    6.5k
    I really can't imagine a lot of Muslim men lining up to buy it though.Sir2u

    Probably not the demographic [mod corrected confusing misspelling] they’re attempting to appeal to, I assume.

    Supposedly Muslim women are not supposed to wear clothes that demark the shape of the body. So how does SI think this will help race relations?Sir2u

    The Muslim faith is not a race.

    Showcasing a member of a group that has been discriminated against in a positive light can change perception.
  • Sir2u
    3.5k
    Probably not the democratic they’re attempting to appeal to, I assume.praxis
    I doubt that there will be very many Muslim men happy about the faithless unclean ogling their females. I cannot see how that could be counted as "Showcasing in a positive light" or make the poor women's lives easier. I seriously doubt that many of the men are as liberal as that woman's family are.

    The Muslim faith is not a race.praxis

    So shall we call it faithism then instead of racism? Most Of the people that don't like the Muslims see them as another race, because most of them are.
  • I like sushi
    4.8k
    People are generally against Sharia Law. For good reason. The rest of the rhetoric is irrelevant.

    Any Muslim adhering to Sharia Law is my enemy because I’m dead against it’s explicit lack of tolerance.

    Focusing on eradicating [mod corrected confusing misspelling] Sharia Law is more important.
  • BC
    13.6k
    We're having spelling problems here. I'm all for "irradiating" Sharia Law, if that would also "eradicate" it.

    Spelling. Democratic for demographic. I blame the spell checker. It's getting too aggressive at changing the word, with often absurd results. So much for the robotics revelation revolution. See?

    And can we please stop using race as an all purpose term for difference we are going to disapprove of? "I don't like sour apples." "Oh, you must be a racist." There are only four races that don't exist -- white, black, yellow, and red. If you don't like yellow people as a group, you're racist, maybe. If you don't like Welsh people, that's quite sensible. Same goes for Icelanders, Burundians, and Salvadorians. You are also not a racist if you just dislike everybody.
  • Sir2u
    3.5k
    Spelling. Democratic for demographic. I blame the spell checker. It's getting too aggressive at changing the word, with often absurd results. So much for the robotics revelation revolution. See?Bitter Crank

    I had guessed that, but wanted to make sure.

    And can we please stop using race as an all purpose term for difference we are going to disapprove of?Bitter Crank

    I would love to do that, but not many people would understand the difference. And telling them that they are being religionists might not work. If you want to change how people refer to other groups of people as races then you will have a lot of work to do.

    There are only four races that don't exist -- white, black, yellow, and red. If you don't like yellow people as a group, you're racist, maybe.Bitter Crank

    How can you be a racist for disliking a group of people that don't exist as a race? :worry:

    The only race I don't get along with are idiots, the rest of them I am fine with.

    If you don't like Welsh people, that's quite sensible.Bitter Crank

    That sounds racist, or is the another name for it?
  • I like sushi
    4.8k
    Haha! Old, and bad, habits die hard! I get pissed having to correct US spelling. Sorry, colour is always colour for me. I have autocorrect turned off, but I still use it and still keep thinking eradicate is irradicate. I’ve improved in my accuracy, but I have some weird abnormality and often my writing/speaking doesn’t keep up with my thoughts so I end up splicing words together of missing out words completely without realising it.

    Generally I go for phonetic spelling and given that English is messed up in that category some happy mistakes happen. So lets irradiate Sharia Law - then it will die and/or be more visible to those who think it’s all soft and cuddly.
  • BC
    13.6k
    I have no problem with British spelling. Gaol. Colour. Whilst.
  • andrewk
    2.1k
    What BC said. C'mon people, spelling matters! (and grammar matters even more) Wars have started over less. Read over your posts before clicking on 'Post Comment'.
  • I like sushi
    4.8k
    Never! I’d rather suffer the consequences and force myself to write more carefully. If it’s an OP I do skim over what I’ve written though.

    Trust me, my accuracy has improved a helluva lot since I stopped proof reading - it does slip sometimes when tired though.
  • creativesoul
    11.9k
    Here's a question...

    Is that lady a muslim?
  • creativesoul
    11.9k
    I'm reminded of an American actor, cannot remember whom, that 'dressed up' as a black man for Halloween by painting his exposed body parts.

    Yeah, I can see how some could be offended by that. Even more so by the pic in SI if that woman is not muslim. If that's the case, it looks more like exploitation rather than respectful representation. If that sort of posing is against muslim women's religion, and that lady is not muslim, then it's definitely not ok.

    It's like pictures of Jesus and Mary Magdalene making out.

    I'm pretty damned liberal.
  • andrewk
    2.1k
    If that sort of posing is against muslim women's religioncreativesoul
    My understanding is that at least part of the point is that it is not against islam, only against certain extremist interpretations of islam such as wahabi. So it sends a message that it is possible to be a good muslim without being a joy-killing wahabi.
  • andrewk
    2.1k
    I’d rather suffer the consequences and force myself to write more carefully.I like sushi
    I don't understand that sentence. Are you sure it's what you meant to write?
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Does this model dress in a similar way at the beach/when swimming because she chooses to? That's all we need to know.

    I can see questioning it if the model doesn't dress in a similar manner out of choice. In that case we'd question why the SI team made her dress this way, given the complex history of this type of outfit and the historical reasons why many women may have been essentially forced to dress in a similar manner.
  • I like sushi
    4.8k
    That is an example ;)

    I simply meant that I’d rather condition myself to write more clearly the first time around. If I make too many mistakes then I am the one who suffers in the long run.
  • Deleteduserrc
    2.8k
    those conditioned to view Muslims as the enemypraxis

    versus

    Okay, it’s settled, a Muslim can see another Muslim as an enemy.praxis

    The former is about a group as a whole. The latter is about a particular member of a group.
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