• Wallows
    8.7k
    Dunno what you're saying, dude.unenlightened

    I'm saying that people aren't as malleable as any frustrated psychologist might know.
  • unenlightened
    3.7k
    How many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb?

    Reveal
    One, but the lightbulb has to want to change.
  • Wallows
    8.7k


    Is it still a joke if it makes you sad?
  • unenlightened
    3.7k
    I'm still laughing. You can't expect much sympathy for having to have things your own way.
  • Hanover
    4.8k
    Part of me wants to say that psychology is anti-rational. I mean, if a person was exposed to trauma, abuse, and neglect, and form a resulting aversion towards risk with dealing with people, then what's wrong with that?Wallows

    If you evolve in an adverse environment, then you may be ill equipped to survive once you leave it. While your paranoia might make you particularly well equipped to survive abuse, it's going to limit you once you're freed of the abuse.

    There's a native American tribe in the southwest US that is known to be the most obese and diabetic population on the planet. They evolved in the desert, deprived of a predictable source of food. Their bodies became super-efficient at storing energy, but they now live in a land of plenty, so they just keep getting fatter and fatter.
  • Wallows
    8.7k
    If you evolve in an adverse environment, then you may be ill equipped to survive once you leave it.Hanover

    That's actually quite paradoxical. If your aware of social Darwinism along with conservative sentiment that statement doesn't contrive with those doctrines.
  • Hanover
    4.8k
    That's actually quite paradoxical. If your aware of social Darwinism along with conservative sentiment that statement doesn't contrive with those doctrines.Wallows

    It's a false dichotomy to require that I either accept we are either (1) entirely products of our environment and genetics or (2) entirely products of our choices. The conservative position is no more #2 than is the liberal position is #1. To accept #1 is to deny free will of any sort. To accept #2 is to pretend I could fly if I just chose to.

    My position is that our environment and our genetics shape us, offer us all sorts of benefits and challenges, and define us is some real ways. I don't discount though the power of the will, whatever it is, that propels some of the the struggling to greatness and some with so many privileges to failure. Good choices and bad choices matter, including refusing to take the steps needed to move you out of your misery.

    I suppose I'm lucky I can eat a hamburger and not gain the weight that some Native Americans do, but it's not a foregone conclusion that I won't get fat and some of the Native Americans I spoke of won't be thin. Choices matter.
  • csalisbury
    1.9k
    I was thinking more about Das Man, or the notion that there's a one-size-fits-all sanity. I don't think you should continue shaming people with a re-engineered purpose. That wouldn't make much sense.frank

    You're right.
  • Schzophr
    78
    I have had a very dreamy childhood which became more strange in my adulthood.

    In my spare time I acquired a lot of knowledge - through a combination of observation and the man-made help.

    At 16 I began to have a permanent hallucination that is still present at 27, and had great interest in imagery.

    I would stimulate my mind with imagery I found using man-made help.

    The hallucination reacted after long periods of imagery reading - it would have epic events; it had a four major events, and during the time inbetween there were thousands of minor events plus all standard observation.

    The hallucination is like a machine of lines and currents that grows, learns and broadcasts imagery as well as dream enhancement(I probably know the most about dreaming).

    It is like an interactive shell that feeds from waste energy and is hyper during sleeps healing energy; I have learned a lot studying it's presence over 11 years.
  • csalisbury
    1.9k


    That's a good interview. I heard about the polyvagal theory somewhere else, recently, but only saw the headline and a precis. Reading the article, the theory makes sense to me.

    I want to insert a little of my personal experience, with a very big caveat that the article is talking largely about sexual assault and I'm talking about something self-inflicted, and, I imagine, much less traumatic.

    I used to be a big marijuana smoker, 14-20. At 16, I had a very bad shroom trip (ego-death, violent imagery, certainty about being in hell etc).

    I really liked weed before that. It was like being in a cozy, intimate room with friends. My experience of smoking with people then was: the space changed, people were more themselves, their real selves, and it was easy to communicate and share. It was really fun, and funny. I treasure those moments a lot.

    After the trip, I still had a little of that. But it was like the weed 'space' had in it a kind of whirlpool at the center. I was always kind of aware of it, in the way you're aware of something in your peripheral vision. I was feeling the waves or ripple-effects of the center all the time. Sometimes, it would draw me close to it, and I've have to go to bed.

    As I got older, it got more intense. I've stopped now, because three or four times something like this would happen: I'd be very relaxed, settling into the 'intimate space' and suddenly one element would seem 'off'. This could be a character in a movie we were watching, or someone's gesture, or whatever you like. Suddenly, I would be fixated on this thing with a growing sense of...something. Then I would start to have flashes of random images (the time I most remember involved 1. a basement with exposed pipes 2. paper popsicle wrappers with melted popsicle juices. ) and these would flash back and forth, growing in intensity, until some feeling/image reached a distilled peak of [This cannot happen! If that were true, it would be too horrible!] and then I'd have to lay down. I'd be totally still and silent, immovable, and over me would continue slightly softer images and ideas, and there was always comfort in hearing people talk to each other about stuff, without hearing what they were saying, just the sound of voices talking to one another, that you can vaguely locate in the space you're in. Like parents relaxing or making preparations for a party , or something while you're very sick. These states would last for hours with me unable to talk, except in a kind of free-associative babbling, until I fell asleep. Then I'd talk to everyone in the morning (What happened man? you were really fucked up!)

    Like I said, I don't want to equate this to the events the author was describing, but maybe it's drawing on some similar thing? I very much felt like I 'got' his description of 'freezing' while stuff happened around you.
  • Wallows
    8.7k


    Yeah, I can never overcome the pot-anxiety. It's like there, telling me that this isn't the best way to kill time.
  • csalisbury
    1.9k

    pot-anxiety is real. I think we may have experienced it in different ways. Smoking with friends, for me, was the best way to kill time. If I could still access it, I believe I'd still feel that way. For me, it was like [whatever force] plunked down something that meant I couldn't go there anymore. When I was into mystical stuff, I got really hung up on the cherubim w/ flaming swords keeping everyone out of Eden.
  • Coben
    404
    I come in at 5 on the test. A great book that deals with this in relation to drug abuse is
    https://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Scream-Opposite-Addiction-Connection/dp/1620408910
    Chasing the Scream, which goes into the connection between drug abuse and childhood trauma and also the racist intentions of the original drug war and the failure so of the current conception of, treatment of and legal reaction to drug abuse. It also offers wonderful solutions to drug addiction. Luckily I never got addicted to any drug. Food, fantasy, to some degree sex I had issues with. The interesting thing is that I think my childhood experiences helped me to see society more clearly than most people and to have a healthy skepticism. But I was also lucky (and perhaps skilled) because I extended my social connections well and also adopted some mentors.
  • unenlightened
    3.7k
    People who bought this book also bought a handy keyring bottle-opener. According to Amazon. :smile:

    Here's something a bit peripheral ... https://humanparts.medium.com/the-danger-in-fake-positivity-and-spiritual-bypassing-c202040b8dd3?fbclid=IwAR3-R-geVAiM9-jahx94XAaZXPN4TgQtE4Vfnua8CcP-CWtdWzsglfmv9ms
  • Coben
    404
    For me that's central. In today's anti-emotional climate, with psychotropics and can do smiles as the rule, not judging the so-called negative emotions is an option everyone should at least be aware of.
  • csalisbury
    1.9k
    eople who bought this book also bought a handy keyring bottle-opener. According to Amazon. :smile:unenlightened

    ha! Any damaged person worth their salt oughta take a few moments and learn how to open a bottle with a lighter imo. A bottle, unopenable is its own trauma.


    Yes. And add to that fake negativity. You can distance yourself from your negative emotions with schopenhauer and Cioran just as well as you can with Norman Vincent Peale and Live, Love, Laugh

    According to Pessoa,'the poet is a faker/ who's so good at his act/ he even fakes the pain/of pain he feels in fact.' Same with the self-psychoanalyst for that matter. The prettier and more conceptually coherent you've made your emotions, good or bad, the further you are from them, maybe?
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