• _db
    3.6k
    Say you have a billion dollars. You have the option to donate most or all of it to charities that will help very many people by bringing them up to some suitable standard of living. Instead you decide to use the billion dollars to buy a fleet of private jets. A lot of people would think that that is your choice - it's your money, after all, and you did nothing wrong by not donating it to effective altruism charities.

    Now say you are walking down the street when you notice a man abusing a woman. You can intervene, or at least call the police. Instead you continue to walk, enter an ice cream parlor, buy a mint chocolate chip ice cream cone and walk home. Most people, I think, would find this to be wrong.

    What is the difference between the two here?

    Hume argued that people only feel compassionate towards others if they are somehow within the general vicinity of them, or have an emotional connection to them. Schopenhauer later condoned Hume's idea. Hume was concerned with spatio-temporal location, but this can also be expanded to socio-economic location: many rich people don't care about the poor despite them living across the street. It's as if the poor aren't even there.

    Action, according to Donaldson, requires intention.

    Apply this to the two scenarios above. In the first scenario, you know that there are starving people elsewhere that could be helped by your donations. Buying a bunch of jets requires not only your intention to buy these jets but also your intention to not help these starving people. In the second scenario, you have the intention of getting ice cream but also the intention of not helping the woman being abused.

    So it seems difficult to defend non-interventionism based on intention alone.

    Furthermore, for an event to take place (a non-agential happening that may nevertheless include actions), requires there to be certain variables in place. For example, the second scenario requires there to be a victim, a perpetrator, and any non-intervening bystanders.

    It seems to stand, then, that being complacent and not "doing" anything (intervening) makes you complicit in an event transpiring, since you have a consciousness and can thus alter your position in the equation.

    The victim, on the other hand, is not responsible for what happens to them. The actions are directed towards them. Whereas it seems rather absurd to complain that the victim is forcing responsibility on bystanders (i.e. it's the victim's fault), it does not seem absurd to complain that other's inaction is forcing harm on the victim.

    To put it another way: say you have two circuit boards that has various transistor switches. Board 1 has only one LED light. Board 2 has more than one LED light. In order for LED A to light up on either board, no other LEDs can be lit up. Now, on board 1, there are no other LEDs to prevent LED A from lighting up. But on board 2 there are other LEDs. If we don't want LED A to light up on board 2, then at least one other LED needs to be lit up. It is the "responsibility" so to speak for the other LEDs to light up and prevent LED A from doing so. In other words, board 2 has additional variables while board 1 has none.

    Now you might say that these other LEDs are merely "allowing" LED A to light up on board 2. But for LED A to light up, there must be a causal equation that is satisfied for LED A to light up. Whereas on board 1 this equation is satisfied in virtue of there not being any available potential-interventionists, board 2 only satisfies the equation if the other LEDs don't do anything.

    From this, we can see how there is no real distinction between doing and allowing. Action requires intention, and to do something is to do an action. Therefore not-doing something (intervening) is nevertheless actually doing something (not-intervening). Therefore, allowing something bad to happen when you have the ability to do something counts as being complicit in the action.

    However in the legal sense, there is a difference between doing and allowing. Potential intervening bystanders only have to intervene if someone instigates] a harmful action. It's not their fault that they are placed into a role of responsibility. So they usually can't be punished. But they don't seem to be able to get out scotch-free either - after all, they "allowed" the action to happen by not intervening, thus playing a role in the action's necessary and sufficient conditions, thus by proxy they were complicit in the action. A secondary mode of doing.

    Additionally as a consequentialist myself I can't see how adding intentions into the mix suddenly changes everything. The outcome, the consequence, is what matters here. Even if it was an accident, somebody got hurt. What difference does it make?
  • _db
    3.6k
    From this, I think it's fairly easy to obtain a theory of responsibility: to act based upon what you know and your abilities. I cannot be held responsible for 9/11. I was barely a child when that happened. I neither knew what was going on and had no way of preventing it from happening. But if today I saw a person getting mugged, I would have not only direct knowledge of the event but also the means (ability) to intervene. Similarly, I have indirect knowledge of the suffering of people afar (I have direct knowledge of their suffering in the abstract), and I have the means of helping them (by donating money, for example).

    Thus, the effective altruism pushes the idea that we should try to maximize our utility by becoming knowledgeable of global affairs and pursuing a job that we not only enjoy but also gives us money to donate. Indeed that was what Aristotle recommended (right before he taught the ruthless conqueror Alexander the Great...was Aristotle partly responsible for the ensuing carnage?): to do good by taking care of yourself.
  • Barry Etheridge
    349
    So if I give my billion dollars to a charity and the charity treasurer then embezzles or straight out steals a chunk of it am I not responsible for that? Did I not allow it to happen? Indeed didn't the very size of my donation precipitate it by providing the temptation? And if said treasurer uses the money to fund arms deals for the terrorist organisation of his choice, am I also responsible for that? And if the terrorist organisation then blows up an aeroplane in which I am flying am I now responsible for my own death?

    Now let's add another dimension, one which more truly reflects reality. If, say, I am walking down the street and there are 27 (don't know why 27 - just like the number, I guess) muggings happening one of which I successfully intervene in, am I still responsible for the other 26 not being prevented? What if it's 127 and I am so overwhelmed by the number that I simply cannot move. Or 1027 all of which involve muggers with a knife pointing at their victims and a gun pointing at me and fear for my own safety prevents my intervention (although why this should suddenly become a concern now .... !)

    As righteous (and advantageous to charity fundraisers) as it is to make commission and omission equal 'in the eyes of the law' it simply won't wash. Pure altruism is ultimately ineffective (donating a billion dollars to a billion charities does nothing of any value to any of them), costly (give away the whole billion dollars and there's nothing for tea tonight), and dangerous. It simply doesn't make sense to equate doing and allowing. That's why it is not illegal to run away from a mugging. Why you won't be charged for letting robbers open your safe at gunpoint. And why there is no law that says you must give to every charity or volunteer for every humanitarian mission that approaches you.
  • BC
    13.2k
    Additionally as a consequentialist myself I can't see how adding intentions into the mix suddenly changes everything. The outcome, the consequence, is what matters here. Even if it was an accident, somebody got hurt. What difference does it make?darthbarracuda

    I too am a consequentialist, but sometimes it is hard to identify the connection between action or inaction and consequence.

    The consequences of intervention may be--often are--invisible. On the one hand, a stranger's verbal threat might be sufficient to scare a mugger away, or it might cause an abrupt escalation, an eruption of life-threatening violence. They wouldn't--couldn't--know what would happen as a result of their intervention, especially if it wasn't decisive. On the other hand, a donor to an excellent NGO probably won't see the good work that was being done with the donation.

    If the dangerous consequences of intervention are often invisible, so are the benefits.
    It is often difficult to identify the connection between action/inaction and consequence.

    I'm still a consequentialist, but sometimes we have to guess, estimate, assume--certainly not know-- what the consequences are.
  • _db
    3.6k
    If the dangerous consequences of intervention are often invisible, so are the benefits.
    It is often difficult to identify the connection between action/inaction and consequence.

    I'm still a consequentialist, but sometimes we have to guess, estimate, assume--certainly not know-- what the consequences are.
    Bitter Crank

    Very true, good point. As long as we're consequentialists then we also need to take into account ignorance and uncertainty in certain situations in regards to our own abilities to successfully intervene.
  • mcdoodle
    1.1k
    I'm still a consequentialist, but sometimes we have to guess, estimate, assume--certainly not know-- what the consequences are.Bitter Crank

    I'm not a consequentialist. I'm interested to know what are the circumstances in which anyone knows for certain what the consequences of a certain act will be, before undertaking it. Your remark makes those circumstances sound frequent.
  • _db
    3.6k
    I'm not a consequentialist. I'm interested to know what are the circumstances in which anyone knows for certain what the consequences of a certain act will be, before undertaking it. Your remark makes those circumstances sound frequent.mcdoodle

    Certainty is not required for action. Epistemic vagueness is independent of the value of a state of affairs.

    Indeed I think this might actually be a good argument against any affirmative second-order morality in general: we can't be ethical due to our existential and epistemic position in the world.
  • mcdoodle
    1.1k
    My point was that BC said and you concurred that 'sometimes' we are uncertain of consequences when acting. I'm interested in your account of the times we aren't uncertain of the consequences. I think of them as nil, which is one reason I'm not a consequentialist.
  • _db
    3.6k
    I'm interested in your account of the times we aren't uncertain of the consequences. I think of them as nil, which is one reason I'm not a consequentialist.mcdoodle

    I think we can be uncertain but still lean towards some option. Granted, this is still uncertainty. But we can presumably approach/estimate certainty within a certain threshold.

    In any case, the value of a state of affairs is independent of the intentions and epistemic conditions of the agents within. Uncertainty may be a legal excuse but isn't a moral excuse, especially when we have the means to resolve uncertainty to within an acceptable amount.
  • andrewk
    2.1k
    So if I give my billion dollars to a charity and the charity treasurer then embezzles or straight out steals a chunk of it am I not responsible for that? Did I not allow it to happen?Barry Etheridge
    You can rest easy. You neither are responsible, nor did you allow it. To allow something you need to know about somebody's intention to do it before it happens. You didn't know about that intention.
  • andrewk
    2.1k
    I'm not a consequentialist.mcdoodle
    I would love it if you elaborated on that. I think I am mostly consequentialist but I'm sure there are significant bits of other meta-ethical frameworks in my personal value system as well. I don't have any very clear idea of what they are and how they all fit together, and experience doesn't help me to distinguish because it seems to me that in everyday life (unlike in philosophers' armchair bizarro world thought experiments) most widely-held non-religious ethical frameworks make the same recommendations most of the time.
  • mcdoodle
    1.1k
    Thanks Andrew. I feel that, given that we never know the consequences of actions before they happen, actually consequentialists are forming judgments based on their forecasting criteria, which may be radically different from the impact of actual consequences. These criteria may even be virtues and vices in rational-sounding cloaks.

    Two examples of non-consequentialism. One, sometimes the truth needs to be told. Political friends tell me I should forsake the Greens for a party with a realistic shot at power. But the Greens are right in a fundamental way (for me): that humans have a place in the ecology of the Earth, and that facing up to that - depleting resources, nuclear danger, the use of other animals - is honest. Economic growth is unnecessary: between us we have enough, but we are unprepared to grapple with redistribution. I've reached a point in my life where i think such things need saying.

    Two, sometimes compassion matters more than anything else. I can argue this rationally - humans are social animals - but I know i feel it, more as time goes on, whatever the supposed reasons. Sometimes we love - in the Platonic way, the love Socrates finaly advocates in the Symposium (though I'm an atheist and his appeals to the divine) - and the consequences be damned. Save the children. Protect the innocent.
  • Michael Rings
    1
    "A man truly free is under no obligation to obey any injunction, human or divine."
    -Ragnar Redbeard

    I can choose to act "positively" and help woman (by calling police, intervening, etc.). I can choose to act "negatively" and harm woman (by attacking her, warning attacker if somebody is approaching, etc.), or I can choose to act neutrally and do nothing. In this case I am demonstrating that I am neither for nor against whatever is happening. That I wish to keep "my world", "my system", as much separate and independent from the rest of the world as possible. Those claiming that by isolating yourself from event, and thus not affecting it in any meaningful way, somehow makes you good or bad are simply biased towards one or another.

    So why I live in society? Because I have clear and mutually beneficial contract with society. It's called "law". I work, provide for society, pay my taxes, don't harm anyone, etc. and government ("representatives" of society), in return, allows me to engage in trade on their territory, provides health care, etc. Law states full extent of what society expects of me, of my responsibilities, and helping those in need is not amongs them. I am simply playing by your rules, society. Rules, according to which I am keeping my end of the bargain. I am doing what you wanted, so you lost all rights to call me bad.
  • Cavacava
    2.4k
    A to light up on either board, no other LEDs can be lit up.

    This rule, excludes the possibility that two or more bulbs can be simultaneously lit at any point in time.
    We don't establish the initial conditions either there are lights on or not.
    If there are other lights on then per by rule there is nothing we can do.
    The example that the OP posted leaves no opportunity to do anything. At least, as I read it, it is all hard wired, and lights are either on or off.

    If a person decides to purchase a fleet of jets, she helps countless families that work for the company that builds jets. Asking the question is it better not to give to charity...assumes some sort of universal know it all position typical of utilitarianism. How do you weight the good?

    Should you intervene when you see something bad happening. It may be that you don't understand what is happening. Perhaps a 911 call would be appropriate, unless of course the people involved are black.

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