• Ilya B Shambat
    194
    For a long time, political correctness had any number of people believe that the Western civilization was the root of all wrongs done against women. Then the Muslims invaded, and that claim could no longer be credibly made, as some Muslims are worse by standards of feminism than any place in the West. So now these people are having to decide whether to look like complete idiots and traitors and side with extremist Muslims, or to admit their error and side with their own countries in which they have enough rights to make their ridiculous claims. [para modified by moderator]

    The politically correct created a false Satan. They decided that there was a single root of evil. Of course they were wrong. But also wrong had been the people who made the Western civilization their god. When you create a false god, it is only a time before somebody comes along and instead calls him Satan. False gods and false Satans create one another.

    We see this with just about everything that is out there. Government. Corporate system.
    Men. Women. Jews. Reason. Faith. Feelings. Ego. Soul. Science. Capitalism. Whatever may be one's interests, if one is clever enough he could make it look like the definition of good. Then someone whose interests do not correspond with his own will then come along and say that it is the definition of evil.

    Both will be dead wrong.

    The Western civilization is neither God nor Satan. Neither is anything else listed above. All of these can have both positive and negative outcomes, usually a mix. Neither business nor labor are good or bad; both are capable of both. Neither men nor women are good or bad; both are capable of both. Neither government nor private sector are good or bad; both are capable of both. Same most certainly is the case for the Western civilization. Anything human can be good or bad. That is because anything capable of choice can choose to be good or bad, and is in just about all cases a mix of both.

    So these people created a false Satan, and they are being met with a real-life refutation that they cannot deny. Some muslims are more misogynistic than even the Western conservatives. A much uglier Satan is staring them straight in the face. They can no longer fool people as easily. [Moderator deletion] So they have a choice: Either continue with their ever-more-obviously ridiculous standpoint, or recognize what is patently obvious and correct the bullshit that they are teaching the kids.

    Are these people the only ones who pull tricks of this kind? Absolutely not. It is fashionable in many places to see the corporate mindset as “reality” and anyone who is not a part of it as not living in the real world. Now the corporate world is real enough; but it is ridiculous to say that it is reality. The Sun is reality. Planet Earth is reality. China and India are reality. The rainforest is reality. Corporate mindset is not reality, it is a mindset. You do not leave “reality” or “real world” when you think in other ways than how it wants you to think. What you are doing instead is acquiring a more complete view of reality. Then, if you go back to the corporate world, you do so with a more informed understanding of the world; and if you do not, you still have a more complete understanding of reality than you did when you were in it.

    So now we see the corporate mindset being elevated to being a God; and – surprise surprise – what do we see is a rise in socialist agitation, where the corporate world is being painted as Satan. Once again, if you create a false God, it is only a matter of time before someone comes along and inverts it and says that it is Satan. The correct solution is to call things by their proper name. The corporate world, the government, the Western civilization, and anything else listed above, is neither Satan nor God. They are human phenomena which, like all human phenomena, can be good, evil, or a mix.

    So Hobbes, then Communists, stated as much as that the state was God. Then the libertarians, anarchists and some conservatives stated instead that it is Satan. It is neither of the above. The state consists of people. So do all sorts of private entities. There is no reason to expect people within the state and people outside the state to be better or worse than one another. Governments can be good and governments can be bad. Private power can be good and private power can be bad. In Western democracies, where governments are elected, official, accountable, checked and balanced, while entities like Texas Oil and the Church of Scientology are not, there is adequate scrutiny of the government and not adequate scrutiny of private entities, allowing these private entities to get away with abuses that are not allowed the federal government.

    With ego, we see some people seeing it as the source of all evil and others as the fountainhead of progress. Some people worship genius or risk-taking or love and others name such things narcissism. Some people worship the mind and others say that reason is cold or immoral. Some people say that unconditional obedience to whatever any given society wants is the definition of good and others say that any kind of conformity is evil. False gods beget false satans. In fact no human phenomenon deserves either deification or demonization. Everything listed above, and more, can go right or wrong.

    So it is time that these fallacies be seen through. No human phenomenon is God. No human phenomenon is Satan. Call things by their proper names. Anything human can go right or wrong. And that is as much the case for the Western civilization as it is for all other things listed above.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k
    No human phenomenon is God. No human phenomenon is Satan. Call things by their proper names. Anything human can go right or wrong.Ilya B Shambat

    Like you said, one person’s Satan can be another person’s God. However, I agree that this is a wrong-headed way of viewing human phenomena. There are winners and losers in all human institutions. The goal should be to make as few losers as possible and to soften the blow of being one of the losers. That might entail making the winners more accountable to the community of their fellow human beings.

    Thoughts?
  • wax
    301
    I think in society there maybe the approach that what is useful, is therefore the truth....as sort of utilitarian approach to truth.

    But what is useful for one set of people won't always be useful for another set of people.

    And as I said in another thread, there doesn't seem to be a way to determine an object truth*, so truth will always be subjective, and people can use this idea to arrive at my first statement, and just go along with the idea that what is useful is truth, although there are ways to arrive at a more objective truth by looking at evidence, this can be inconvenient for some, and they therefore might say that what isn't useful, or is indeed counter to their group, is therefore no the truth...which you see with climate change deniers.

    * and even using terms like 'objective reality' and 'objective truth' these are terms that risk being see as objective statements, and if one is claiming that there can be no objective reality, then one can't make objective claims about it.....so what we are often left with is accepting ideas as useful, or ideas which aren't useful, as statements of truth.....and people often base their thinking on what is useful to them, their self interest...so often opt for ideas that are useful for them and call them truths..

    It would be far more honest for most people to say they base their philosophies on the bases of what is useful to them personally, what is useful for their own survival, and not try to claim these positions are based upon some vague definition of truth.
  • Ilya B Shambat
    194
    The problem with holding winners accountable is that they believe they have earned what they have and owe nothing to anyone else. They should be held accountable for matters affecting all of us, such as global warming. Of course losers are a part of the problem as well, as we see in Brazilian farmers burning down the rainforest. All in all, everyone should be accountable for what they do to the world.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k
    All in all, everyone should be accountable for what they do to the world.Ilya B Shambat

    Agreed but with the caveat that some people or groups have more of an impact on the environment and other externalities.
  • Anaxagoras
    433
    For a long time, political correctness had any number of people believe that the Western civilization was the root of all wrongs done against women. Then the Muslims invaded, and that claim could no longer be credibly made, as some Muslims are worse by standards of feminism than any place in the West.Ilya B Shambat

    You started off wrong already

    So now these people are having to decide whether to look like complete idiots and traitors and side with extremist Muslims, or to admit their error and side with their own countries in which they have enough rights to make their ridiculous claims.Ilya B Shambat

    Again you're starting off wrong making false equivalencies per your title.

    The politically correct created a false Satan. They decided that there was a single root of evil. Of course they were wrong.Ilya B Shambat

    Who is the politically correct? Is this an ethical problem? Who is Satan, and does Satan represent an archetype and if so, what is it?

    We see this with just about everything that is out there. Government. Corporate system.
    Men. Women. Jews. Reason. Faith. Feelings. Ego. Soul. Science. Capitalism.
    Ilya B Shambat

    What does this have to do with evil and Satan?

    Some muslims are more misogynistic than even the Western conservatives. A much uglier Satan is staring them straight in the face. They can no longer fool people as easily.Ilya B Shambat

    You're not making sense, and the fact that moderators are deleting your stuff means you are probably going off the hinge.
  • deletedmemberwy
    1k
    People need to start thinking for themselves instead of scapegoating and stereotyping. There is a truth that is not relative to what they perceive. Instead of obsessing over what is politically correct or not, maybe we should focus on discovering truth instead of what people think.
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