• OpinionsMatter
    85
    We all know this Godly figure speaks about how to pray, but after reading an article called The Fifty Proofs I started to consider what Jesus is really saying to us. The first proof is called Try Praying and explains that Jesus says "what ever you ask for, will be given to you" but when people genuinely pray for someone to be cured of cancer, they probably won't get healed. This verse was taken slightly out of context, but we all know now a days that isn't what matters to us. Point is Jesus doesn't answer prayers like that, does he? But if we take a look at what Jesus says earlier, he also says "do not test the Lord your God". I think the only reason those kinds of prayers aren't answered is because they're more of a test than an actual, sincere prayer. So does Jesus lie? And if he does, does it mean he's not actually a 'perfect' God because of it?
  • hachit
    237
    First may I ask what you mean by a lie

    Secondly God dose answer prayer, he says one of three things: yes, no, or not yet.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k
    Secondly God dose answer prayer, he says one of three things: yes, no, or not yet.hachit

    Good point
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    By lie, I mean spread false information. If Jesus tells you "Ask, and you will receive. Knock, and the door will open. Seek, and you will find."-(From the Bible) and then you 'ask' but don't 'receive' don't you feel that he's lied to you? He told you that you would receive, and you didn't. So then do we conclude he's lied to us?
  • hachit
    237

    Here's is a comment I have on the topic of quoteingredients scripts
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/242823
    no God keep his promise.

    There is evidence of God not telling people the entire plan if you count that as liying
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    So because he doesn't do anything instantly or within a week, we should still assume it will happen eventually? A lot of people could die of cancer before he steps up and answers that prayer.
  • hachit
    237
    I did say he could say no did I not.
  • Frank Apisa
    2.1k
    Whether he lies or not, Jesus does seem to contradict himself in certain areas.

    In Matthew 5:17ff, Jesus declares: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you: UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OF THE LAW, NOT THE SMALLEST PART OF A LETTER, SHALL BE DONE AWAY WITH UNTIL IT ALL COME TRUE."

    But it seems he does do away with lots of "the LAW"...and his followers have done away with much more...and at least the Earth has not passed away.
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    Yes, but where do we look in the bible for the part where he says "Sometimes I can say no, and that's okay if people die in the process."? When we search for reason we find entropy, God doesn't say that he will say no, actually he repeats himself whenever he says that, yes, he answers all prayer.
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    You may have taken this particular verse out of context, don't you think? Some biblical characters are some what sarcastic, and that's okay. It's not a sin to be sarcastic, or to use sarcasm. Therefore if Jesus was a perfect being, he didn't actually sin by being sarcastic in that verse.
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    First of all, it's "Did Jesus Lie?", cause he's no longer alive.

    Second of all, it depends whether he knew he was saying something untrue. Maybe he really believed God would answer all prayers, which makes his saying so an untruth but not a lie. Maybe he was speaking metaphorically, or the quote was mistranslated?
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    We are supposing that his words, which are written down on paper for people to read, continue to lie to those you read them. You have made a clear point on that, but he himself knows that what he is saying is or isn't a lie, so we must consider our answers on the 'metaphorical' part from there. And, no, the quote was certainly not mistranslated. That leaves us with few possibilities.
  • hachit
    237
    Sometimes I can say no, and that's okay if people die in the process."?
    People are different, however think about it. Why should it matter if I life or die if I'm going to a better place.

    I live, ok so I can continue my (on the universe scale) pointless existence.
    I die, I go to a place I can be content for an eternity.

    As long as you believe and are not on the wrong side, life or death don't matter beond:
    A. Improvement
    B. Saving others

    he answers all prayer.
    This will explain it better than me.
    https://www.virtualsalt.com/answerprayer.html
  • andrewk
    2.1k
    I think the only reason those kinds of prayers aren't answered is because they're more of a test than an actual, sincere prayer.OpnionsMatter
    I urge you to reflect for a moment on what you were saying. You are implying that every one of those many millions of times that a devout Christian has prayed fervently for their critically sick or injured child to recover, and the child died, they were being insincere and only wanted to test God.

    Really?
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    No, I am not saying that. What I am saying was that there was an author who said that if you gathered a hundred people together and they all prayed for cancer to be cured, the author concluded the cancer would not be cured. I was referring to the author's prayer, which would be testing God. If a genuine Christian prayed and the child died, I can only confer that it was God's plan for that child to live in a better place with him in heaven.
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    but he himself knows that what he is saying is or isn't a lieOpnionsMatter

    But did he know they were untrue statements?
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    Yes, it clearly defines in the bible that he knows what he is saying, although he does always say his words are true.
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    Yes, it clearly defines in the bible that he knows what he is sayingOpnionsMatter

    That could be wrong.

    although he does always say his words are true.OpnionsMatter

    I've never seen a more perfect example of Begging the Question.
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    Sorry, but I tried to come on here with a neutral attitude, but you seem to have made me take sides. Yes, however, I do agree that Jesus is not a liar, and that he answers in his own way in his own time. I refuse to lie on this forum, so any remarks are true coming from me. (Even though I sometimes argue with myself)
  • Frank Apisa
    2.1k
    You may have taken this particular verse out of context, don't you think? Some biblical characters are some what sarcastic, and that's okay. It's not a sin to be sarcastic, or to use sarcasm. Therefore if Jesus was a perfect being, he didn't actually sin by being sarcastic in that verse.OpnionsMatter

    I did NOT take the verse out of context...it is a famous quote attributed to Jesus and is used in Relitous discussions FREQUENTLY.

    If you want to think Jesus was being sarcastic in that comment...fine with me. But the only reason to thik that is if you cannot rectify the quote with what happened.

    Lastly, I said nothing about Jesus "sinning."

    You asked if he ever lied...and I responded that whether he lied or not...he dis seem to contradict himself at times.
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    I refuse to lie on this forum, so any remarks are true coming from meOpnionsMatter

    Is it possible you're confused about the difference between telling a lie and telling an untruth?
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    You have a strong argument, but this topic bores me now. If you wish to prove anything else to me you will have to PM. I always answer and listen to my PM.
  • OpinionsMatter
    85

    No, I am not. I said I wouldn't lie, but that doesn't mean I couldn't accidentally say an untruth. If you wish to take this conversation further, PM me.
    I am totally willing to debate this topic with anyone else, it's what I love.
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    No, I am not. I said I wouldn't lie, but that doesn't mean I couldn't accidentally say an untruth.OpnionsMatter

    But you literally said "I refuse to lie" and then "any remarks are true coming from me."
  • matt
    154
    Perhaps Jesus was speaking of God granting spiritual wishes, not necessarily earthly desires.
  • RegularGuy
    2.6k
    Perhaps Jesus was speaking of God granting spiritual wishes, not necessarily earthly desires.matt

    That’s an intelligent distinction.
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