In contextual priming, the mere presence of certain events and people automatically activates our representations of them, and concomitantly, all of the internal information (goals, knowledge, affect) stored in those representations that is relevant to responding back.

The evolved, innate basis of these ubiquitous priming effects is revealed by the fact that they are present soon after birth, underpinning the infant’s imitative abilities (see Meltzoff, 2002). — diesynyang

This is claiming that we wouldn't be able to imitate others if the unconscious processes are not akin to mental representations, goals, and knowledge? (Please don't quote something to answer that, I'm asking you a yes or no question)

^This claim that, we can imitate other without knowing about it WHILE also consciously imitate other.

This claim that, we can imitate other without knowing about it WHILE also consciously imitate other. — diesynyang

I don't know if we're having a serious language problem or not.

I'm not challenging that we can imitate others.

I'm not saying that imitating others is necessarily conscious.

I'm asking why we're taking it to be unconscious MENTAL phenomena.

An answer should ideally be in the form, "Unconsciously imitating others counts as unconscious MENTAL phenomena because . . ."

unconscious MENTAL phenomena. — Terrapin Station

^Ahh that's it :D that's why I'm having trouble following you, because why are we arguing whether is it mental or not? Like at the basic , what is you want to say and what are your dis proofing statement.

NEVER MIND, NOW I REMEMBER :D WAIT A BIT

^Ahh that's it :D that's why I'm having trouble following you, because why are we arguing whether is it mental or not? — diesynyang

Either it's mental or it isn't.

If you're saying it is, then I'm asking why.

If you're not saying that it is, then we're not disagreeing about anything. (And also, it would have nothing to do with whether people are unconsciously doing things for pleasure/pain reasons, unless you define doing something for a pleasure/pain reason in terms that are not mental.)

You feel happy because of Hope. That makes you a good guy who felt happiness by giving poor people charity. That is not selfish, but that Charity is indeed making you happy. — diesynyang

No. It's not a feeling of happiness as a result from hope, as the feeling I am left with is a feeling of worry rather than hope.

Che! It seems I wont be able to proof PE. I found an article that state that "Unconscious Mental Activity" indeed happen,

Contrary to what most of us would like to believe, decision-making may be a process handled to a large extent by unconscious mental activity.

"is In the study, published in Nature Neuroscience, participants could freely decide if they wanted to press a button with their left or right hand. They were free to make this decision whenever they wanted, but had to remember at which time they felt they had made up their mind. The aim of the experiment was to find out what happens in the brain in the period just before the person felt the decision was made. The researchers found that it was possible to predict from brain signals which option participants would take up to seven seconds before they consciously made their decision. Normally researchers look at what happens when the decision is made, but not at what happens several seconds before. The fact that decisions can be predicted so long before they are made is a astonishing finding."

"Many scientists argued that if our decisions are prepared unconsciously by the brain, then our feeling of "free will" must be an illusion. In this view, it is the brain that makes the decision, not a person’s conscious mind"

"Haynes and colleagues now show that brain activity predicts -- even up to 7 seconds ahead of time -- how a person is going to decide. But they also warn that the study does not finally rule out free will: "Our study shows that decisions are unconsciously prepared much longer ahead than previously thought. But we do not know yet where the final decision is made"

but indeed I can't link it to the Pleasure-Pain system heh. But still, I considered Psychological Hedonism is logical. Cheers :D good talk dude

Interesting, you mean right now you feel worried, are you perhaps regretting your decision to give the money?

No.

So, you don't regret the fact that you give the money. Assume that it is true That's mean you don't feel displeasure if you don't give it. By worry what are you feeling exactly? are you feeling "Does that man that I give live better now or not? does my Give is enough"

"is In the study, published in Nature Neuroscience, participants could freely decide if they wanted to press a button with their left or right hand. They were free to make this decision whenever they wanted, but had to remember at which time they felt they had made up their mind. The aim of the experiment was to find out what happens in the brain in the period just before the person felt the decision was made. The researchers found that it was possible to predict from brain signals which option participants would take up to seven seconds before they consciously made their decision. Normally researchers look at what happens when the decision is made, but not at what happens several seconds before. The fact that decisions can be predicted so long before they are made is a astonishing finding." — diesynyang

One problem with this study for our present purposes is that it is NOT saying, "the test subjects had no conscious mental contemplation with respect to which hand to use to press the button prior to feeling that they've made up their minds about which hand to use."

All it really tells us is that prior to feeling that they've made up their mind about which hand to use, there were third-person observable brain states that allowed us to predict which hand they'd use.

I can give possibilities re what might be going on subjectively here, but that's pretty irrelevant.

What we could do instead is pretend that this study is saying:

Prior to being aware of even contemplating which hand to us to push a button, there are third-person observable brain states that allow us to predict which hand someone will decide to use to push the button.

Pretending that the study is saying that, what I'd ask is this: why are we deciding to call those pre-contemplative, unconscious, third-person observable brain states "mental"?

By worry what are you feeling exactly? Does that man that I give live better now or not? — diesynyang

That would be a good way to describe it, yes.

^Hmmm, the definiton of mental activities is "It is activity of the mind resulting in a collection of thoughts"

can I say it is mental because those pre-contemplative, unconscious, third-person observable brain states produce "Thought", the thought to press the button.

^Now the problem is do you know beforehand, that when you give those money, these worry will come up to you? i

Well, either they are thought, or they produce thought. The two wouldn't be the same. If they just produce thought, then they're not identical to thought, and we can't say that they're mental on that grounds.

For example, George Lucas can produce a film, but he's not himself a film.

Or, a shoe factory can produce shoes, but the factory isn't itself shoes

(To suggest to different common senses of "produce.").


(It wouldn't have to just be thought, but anything mental, by the way.)

Of course, this thought comes up before I give the money.

^You know it beforehand, Can we say it like this then,

You want to give the poor dude money because you want to Help him, even though it will worry you, you still want to give him money because the pleasure of helping people is greater than those worry.

Either that or, "I want to give these poor people money because I want to feel worry" ....... in that case maybe you are a masochist???

^They are not thought, but they are indeed "Mental Activity" because they produce "Thought?" or maybe "a Decision-Making Judgement?"

No, there's no pleasure involved, nor is there pain involved. I give the money because I want to help the person, not because I will feel good about myself, but for no other reason than because I want that person to have slightly less of a hard time.

So is a shoe factory some type of clothing just because it produces shoes?

^Hmmm more like Walking is a physical activities because it depleted energy. Is like Thinking is an mental activity because it produce thought, or Like the process of those pre-contemplative, unconscious, third-person observable brain that produce thought.

I mean if the definition of mental activity is "It is activity of the mind resulting in a collection of thoughts"

Surely the process that those pre-contemplative, unconscious, third-person observable brain does is a Mental Activity because it produce thought.

^But do you feel a sense of joy? like really 0 joy from giving money to poor people, You don't feel joy because you help people. Really? The Fact that you just help a people bring no joy to you whatsoever

A phenomenon can't be mental simply because it produces mental phenomena, unless in general, it's true for all x that if x produces y, which has property F, then x has property F. But that's obviously not the case.

^Then in this case, what kind of action that you would call "Mental Activity" ?

Sometimes I feel joy helping people, but in the example of charity then no, I don't feel joy, since I have no idea what they will do with the money and if they will be better for it.

Then won't it be more good if you don't give it in the first place?

Not for the poor man.