The atheistic position does not need some transpersonal authority, which somehow is anthropomorphic, to settle the affairs of a mammalian brain. There are methods by which a person can figure out what they should or should not do which are simply much better than adhering to the rules of a bronze age mythology.

mhmmm.. and what percentage of muslim people are inbred? — Blue Lux

No idea. Marrying your cousin is different than marrying your sister, though. I think it's better not to marry a cousin, though. https://islamqa.info/en/72263

I get that cousin marriages are prevalent in certain places but I think it's more a cultural thing. It's allowed in Islam but I don't think it's recommended.

The atheistic position does not need some transpersonal authority, which somehow is anthropomorphic, to settle the affairs of a mammalian brain. There are methods by which a person can figure out what they should or should not do which are simply much better than adhering to the rules of a bronze age mythology. — Blue Lux

And what are those methods?

Knowledge of right and wrong are innate. Humans are born knowing right and wrong. — Ram

If this is so, then you should have no trouble telling us just what right is, and just what wrong is.

Islam is the innate religion — Ram

Warrant for this assertion?

As far as defining morality.... I would say morality is "right and wrong". Knowledge of morality I think is knowing right and wrong. — Ram

I agree with this - I'd add doing: morality is about knowing right from wrong and acting accordingly. And right is? And wrong is?

If happiness is elsewhere, in a world behind the scenes, which is an utter illusion (reference Freud here if dogma need be), then there is absolutely no happiness, and thus too no sadness... But we can take it further. This life is to be thrown away! Woo! Great contention!

I provided an argument as well. My idea of a valid argument isn't yours. — Ram

In the context of philosophy an argument from authority is not considered to be sufficient. You would need to make a further argument as to why the authority is correct; in which case the authority itself becomes redundant. You have not done that.

that is up to you my friend! What do you think is right!? I think love, happiness, freedom and care is right, and these things are greater than any conception. Im not interested in telling people what is right or wrong for whatever reason based upon whatever. I am interested in agreeing, colloquially, with people and premising feelings.

Im not going to murder someone not because I think it is wrong. But because I have no desire to murder and i think it is grotesque. Why should I need an absolute?

Sounds delusional? Don't you have any amount of something within you which tells you that you should be prepared to sacrifice yourself for something bigger than yourself? — Ram

Why must I sacrifice my life in the first place? Shouldn't we all just get along and value life?

I have a completely different mindset than you do. I don't think life is about being happy.

This life is temporary and is a test. Oppression? It happens. It is what it is. I have a concept of oppression, probably you too. But what that concept consists of and what role it plays are very different I think in our two minds. — Ram

So if god asks you to sacrifice your only son as a test, you would do it?

No, I didn't say any of that. I simply hope Allah grants me a good death. — Ram

You said "I hope fervently for a good death", and you gave examples of randomly dying at a certain place or dying in defense of your family. My notion of a good death is old age and ideally surrounded by loved ones. Is that tragic? You don;t seem to care about other people (or yourself) so long as you pass your own test.

My thinking isn't your thinking. Jannah exists. I don't care about the alleged possibility that it doesn't exist. There is no possibility of it not existing, as it does exist. I don't care what atheists think. I am supposed to strive for Jannah so I hope for Jannah. — Ram

So you aren't willing to honestly asses the truth of your own beliefs, and choose consciously to dogmatically accept and pursue them?

If you were born in India you might be Hindu, and you would be fervently pursuing their values as opposed to your own. If you were born to atheist parents maybe you would be fervently pursuing irreligion and reason...

The arranged marriage is more the family finds a suitor and it's sort of an offer. The woman isn't forced to marry the man. Islamically, it is up to her. — Ram

And what if she IS forced? She can then flee and presumably have sex outside of that marriage, right? Even though the original husband may still want her stoned to death for adultery....

Is it a sin to steal out of hunger? I'm not sure. I think in the hypothetical example you describe it's not punished. — Ram

So "do not steal" should not always be obeyed, right? Doesn't that make it subjective or relative or at least not objective?

I already get that there are extreme situations where for example a person might be compelled to do something. God is Forgiving and God understands things.

Furthermore, not everyone understands that stealing and murder is wrong. Many people don't believe "wrong" exists. People in general are not moral. Furthermore, morality covers not only murder and stealing but also sexuality. I think we probably have very different views in that department. — Ram

If you want to tell consenting adults what they can and cannot do with their own genitals, then yes we have very different views. Why you think you have any business telling other people how or why or with whom to have sex remains a mystery to me. Should we stone homosexuals to death?

At first when you said people in general are not moral, I was going to outright disagree, people are moral especially in general, but now I'm starting to think that you might just have severely backwards moral beliefs, and so you think "live and let live" is actually somehow immoral...

I don't think there is a Caliphate right now. There was the Ottoman Caliphate and I think that was the last one for now. — Ram

Your personal beliefs won't stop other people from rallying around a Caliph and potentially accusing you of heresy for not also rallying when asked. The Shiites are just wrong, right?

If people do not agree then the conversation is not good enough!

In the context of philosophy an argument from authority is not considered to be sufficient. You would need to make a further argument as to why the authority is correct; in which case the authority itself becomes redundant. You have not done that. — Janus

You have your framework, I have mine.

Your framework has not been shown to be philosophical, but merely religious, and hence there is no place for it on a philosophy forum. A religious framework can become philosophical if you can provide at least minimally philosophically acceptable arguments to support it. You have not done that, so, in other words you are on the wrong forum trying to engage with the wrong people.

that is up to you my friend! What do you think is right!? I think love, happiness, freedom and care is right, and these things are greater than any conception. Im not interested in telling people what is right or wrong for whatever reason based upon whatever. I am interested in agreeing, colloquially, with people and premising feelings.

Im not going to murder someone not because I think it is wrong. But because I have no desire to murder and i think it is grotesque. Why should I need an absolute? — Blue Lux

Well if you have no desire to commit a sin, then that's not really much of a test. The test is not what do you do when you don't have the desire. The test is when you do have the desire.

If you were born in India you might be Hindu, and you would be fervently pursuing their values as opposed to your own. If you were born to atheist parents maybe you would be fervently pursuing irreligion and reason... — VagabondSpectre

I am for reason. Islam is for reason. As far as India... I know Muslims from India. I also know a devout Christian who was born to atheist parents. Not everyone follows what their parents believe.

At first when you said people in general are not moral, I was going to outright disagree, people are moral especially in general, but not I'm starting to think that you might just have severely backwards moral beliefs, and so you think "live and let live" is actually somehow immoral... — VagabondSpectre

And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah . They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.

-Surah Al-An'am [6:116]

Maybe you believe humans in general are moral. I don't.

Why must I sacrifice my life in the first place? Shouldn't we all just get along and value life? — VagabondSpectre

The world is not a Disney movie. Humans are born into struggle. Things happen.

So "do not steal" should not always be obeyed, right? Doesn't that make it subjective or relative or at least not objective? — VagabondSpectre

I didn't say that. The context is considered. I don't think there's a context where theoretically a person should steal food. However, a starving person stealing a loaft of bread is different than a rich person doing it. There's nothing subjective about it. The situations are objectively different.

So you aren't willing to honestly asses the truth of your own beliefs, and choose consciously to dogmatically accept and pursue them? — VagabondSpectre

The truth of Islam is that it's true. You have your way of thinking, I have mine.

And what if she IS forced? She can then flee and presumably have sex outside of that marriage, right? Even though the original husband may still want her stoned to death for adultery.... — VagabondSpectre

If a woman is forced into marriage... I have no idea. She's not supposed to be forced into marriage. If that happens, it's against Islam and I'm not sure how the situation should be dealt with. Allah knows best.

You said "I hope fervently for a good death", and you gave examples of randomly dying at a certain place or dying in defense of your family. My notion of a good death is old age and ideally surrounded by loved ones. Is that tragic? You don;t seem to care about other people (or yourself) so long as you pass your own test. — VagabondSpectre

Are you out to impose your framework on me? I am simply explaining my point of view. You can accept it or not accept it.

Your personal beliefs won't stop other people from rallying around a Caliph and potentially accusing you of heresy for not also rallying when asked. The Shiites are just wrong, right? — VagabondSpectre

I'm around quite a bit of Muslims and haven't had any problem like you describe. As for the Shia, the Shia are a deviant sect.

If you want to tell consenting adults what they can and cannot do with their own genitals, then yes we have very different views. Why you think you have any business telling other people how or why or with whom to have sex remains a mystery to me. Should we stone homosexuals to death? — VagabondSpectre

I don't tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. God dictates what we should and shouldn't do.

So if god asks you to sacrifice your only son as a test, you would do it? — VagabondSpectre

Hopefully.

Morality is secular precisely because it is objective.

If it were religiously defined, moral character would cease to be defined on the basis of the morality of an action, instead being based upon a whim which religious belief someone belonged to. Since morality is eternal, that's to say it does not depend on belonging to one religion or another, it is of secular character.

Regardless of a person particular religious beliefs or politics, morality holds itself. It cannot morph, present or alter on account of what religion (if any) someone belongs to. One's actions cannot be moral or not simply by belonging to a religion.

A theocratic morality is no better than claiming your actions have moral virtue because you belong to a football team. Or a political group. Or because you like mints.

Your framework has not been shown to be philosophical, but merely religious, and hence there is no place for it on a philosophy forum. A religious framework can become philosophical if you can provide at least minimally philosophically acceptable arguments to support it. You have not done that, so, in other words you are on the wrong forum trying to engage with the wrong people. — Janus

Philosophical according to what? According to what you define as philosophy? I don't care.

Morality is secular precisely because it is objective.

If it were religiously defined, moral character would cease to be defined on the basis of the morality of an action, instead being based upon a whim which religious belief someone belonged to. Since morality is eternal, that's to say it does not depend on belonging to one religion or another, it is of secular character.

Regardless of a person particular religious beliefs or politics, morality hold itself. It cannot morph, present or alter on account of what religion (if any) someone belongs to. One cannot be mortal or not simply be belonging to a religion.

A theocratic morality is no better than claiming your actions have moral virtue because you belong to a football team. Or a political group. Or because you like mints. — TheWillowOfDarkness

Silliness.

There is no secular basis for morality. Explain how it's possible and how you derive rulings.

In a way... yes. Morality doesn't have that sort of "basis." Secular or religious morality does not have such a basis.

We cannot "derive" morality from the mere fact someone speaks because it means there are no grounds to the argument. It doesn't matter if we are talking about ourselves, a tiger to God. The fact someone simply says something doesn't give a moral justification.

Moral justification requires a particular objective truth, not merely someone speech, but an objective truth of morality. One justifies that a particular claim about morality is true. One that even God themselves is subject to, for not even God can alter the objectivity of morality.

When I say morality is "secular", this is what I mean. Since it is objective and enteral itself, no religious tradition or belief can be the reason an action is right or wrong.

I am for reason. Islam is for reason. As far as India... I know Muslims from India. I also know a devout Christian who was born to atheist parents. Not everyone follows what their parents believe. — Ram

Especially not in this day and age where trends move so quickly that parents have a harder time relating to their kids (and therefore a harder time imparting religious devotion).

Maybe you believe humans in general are moral. I don't. — Ram

Why? Just because someone said so? Why did they believe it?

The world is not a Disney movie. Humans are born into struggle. Things happen. — Ram

Sometimes good things happen. Why should I assume this life is a test? Why should I not strive to avoid the bad things and promote the good things (based on our shared values)?

I didn't say that. The context is considered. I don't think there's a context where theoretically a person should steal food. However, a starving person stealing a loaft of bread is different than a rich person doing it. There's nothing subjective about it. The situations are objectively different. — Ram

So technically someone ought to starve to death before stealing?

The truth of Islam is that it's true. You have your way of thinking, I have mine. — Ram

The truth of your position cannot be that it is true. That's not only circular, it's incoherent. Why is Islam the true one?

I need a reason to be persuaded by, otherwise the Hindu or the Buddhist will just come along and persuade me in favor of their beliefs instead of yours. I need evidence.

If a woman is forced into marriage... I have no idea. She's not supposed to be forced into marriage. If that happens, it's against Islam and I'm not sure how the situation should be dealt with. Allah knows best. — Ram

What good is your blind faith to a book which you think gives us all the answers if you cannot actually extract answers from it?

Are you out to impose your framework on me? I am simply explaining my point of view. You can accept it or not accept it. — Ram

I'm trying to do "philosophy" by comparing our worldviews to see which one is more appealing, more sensical, more rational, and more moral.

I'm around quite a bit of Muslims and haven't had any problem like you describe. As for the Shia, the Shia are a deviant sect — Ram

And the Shia say that the Sunni are a deviant sect. How can I tell the difference between the deviant and the true? (hint: everything is deviant or nothing is)

I don't tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. God dictates what we should and shouldn't do. — Ram

Yes but you tell other people what god says we should and shouldn't do. Other people say god says differently. I say you're all either dumb, deluded, or deceitful.

Hopefully. — Ram

If you think that god wants you to execute your child, please check yourself into a mental institution so that they can make sure you're not insane and are actually hearing the commands of the one true god. I'm sure they'll understand, as will your son, and it will be a very happy event, with flowers and dancing.

What an honor indeed...

What an honor indeed...

Why? Just because someone said so? Why did they believe it? — VagabondSpectre

Humans in general are not moral. Read Revolt of the Masses if you want to learn more. Not everyone believes in the goodness of the mob.

So technically someone ought to starve to death before stealing? — VagabondSpectre

Maybe ideally. If they do it to avoid starving, I think it's permissible.

What good is your blind faith to a book which you think gives us all the answers if you cannot actually extract answers from? — VagabondSpectre

You say it's blind but there's nothing blind about it. I'm not an idiot like perhaps you assume. I simply represent a point of view which you maybe view in an arrogant way and you maybe are not used to.

I'm trying nto do "philosophy" by comparing our worldviews to see which one is more appealing, more sensical, more rational, and more moral. — VagabondSpectre

More appealing to who? I'm wondered about what is appealing to God

Yes but you tell other people what god says we should and shouldn't do. Other people say god says differently. I say you're all either dumb, deluded, or deceitful. — VagabondSpectre

Allah guides whom He wills. I recommend you read the Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran. I think you should study what it has to say before you dismiss it.

And the Shia say that the Sunni are a deviant sect. How can I tll the difference between the deviant and the true? (hint: everything is deviant or nothing is) — VagabondSpectre

There is tons of stuff discussing why the Shia are deviant and misguided. That is a whole other discussion and I would refer you to other resources. I am not an expert on the Shia. However, to understand the matter you would need to understand Islam. Study Islam first and you'll be in a better position to understand.

The truth of your position cannot be that it is true. That's not only circular, it's incoherent. Why is Islam the true one?

I need a reason to be persuaded by, otherwise the Hindu or the Buddhist will just come along and persuade me in favor of their beliefs instead of yours. I need evidence. — VagabondSpectre

The truth of Islam is that it's the true religion.

Do you want to me to type out a whole book here and then you can dismiss it in a condescending way? Allah guides whom He wills. If Allah guides you, He guides you. If He doesn't guide you, He doesn't guide you.

If you become a Hindu, it is to your loss, not to Allah's. It's not my loss either. I'm responsible for what I believe, I am not responsible for you. I've recommended that you read the Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran. If you want to learn about Islam, that is what I recommend. If you do it or not is up to you and is your responsibility.

Sometimes good things happen. Why should I assume this live is a test? Why should I not strive to avoid the bad things and promote the good things (based on our shared values)? — VagabondSpectre

We don't share values. I don't care about our alleged shared values or what you think and don't expect you to follow what I think. You think what you think, I think what I think. I am fine with that and don't expect you to think like me and don't care about what others think. I go off what I think.

Why should assume this life is a test? Well... do you believe in the Quran? It seems- no. Well, if you believe in the Quran you believe this life is a test. I believe in the Quran. If you don't, you don't.

If you think that god wants you to execute your child, please check yourself into a mental institution so that they can make sure you're not insane and are actually hearing the commands of the one true god. I'm sure they'll understand, as will your son, and it will be a very happy event, with flowers and dancing. — VagabondSpectre

You said what would I do if God told me to sacrifice my child. I never said anything about God telling me to do something like that and I don't hear God telling me to do things. I go off the Quran and the Sunnah. If God suddenly appeared to me and I believed it was God.... I guess so. But I seriously doubt that would happen and I've known a lot of Muslims and Christians and I've never encountered a case where that occurred.

We cannot "derive" morality form the mere fact someone speaks because it means there are no grounds to the argument. — TheWillowOfDarkness

The million-dollar question goes unanswered. How do we derive morality from a secular point of view?

My point is the question is a category error because no-one can derive morality in that way, be they secular or religious.

Attempting such an derivation involves telling the falsehood that morality isn't defined by the objective truth of morality. It tries to replace the objective truth of morality with some other sort of truth which supposedly defines morality.

In making such a move, there can be no knowledge or understanding of morality because moral truth is denied. It's replaced by whatever the "basis of morality" is supposed to be. If we attempt to derive morality in this way, we are really moral nihilists. We are rejecting objective moral truth in favour of the "basis" which supposedly tells us what is moral.

Maybe ideally. If they do it to avoid starving, I think it's permissible. — Ram

Maybe? You think?

Where are you're lofty "objective" standards at?

More appealing to who? I'm wondered about what is appealing to God — Ram

Different religions tell different stories about what god(s) want. How do you know the set of stories you were born into or adopted are the right set of stories?

Allah guides whom He wills. I recommend you read the Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran. I think you should study what it has to say before you dismiss it. — Ram

Should I study ancient Greek texts before I dismiss Zeus as god? Telling me to read this or that isn;t going to persuade me. I'm not interested in what you've read, I'm interested in what you know and can demonstrate to be true.

There is tons of stuff discussing why the Shia are deviant and misguided. That is a whole other discussion and I would refer you to other resources. I am not an expert on the Shia. However, to understand the matter you would need to understand Islam. Study Islam first and you'll be in a better position to understand. — Ram

Shia experts have similar stories about how Sunni's are the misguided ones. Stop fooling yourself. What is the evidence that shows Sunni Islam to be true and Shia Islam to be false? If I take your word for it, or the word of Sunni scholars, why shouldn't I take the word of Shia's and Shia scholars?

The truth of Islam is that it's the true religion. — Ram

Again with the self referential incoherence...

What about Islam is true? All of it? The parts you believe are true? The parts the most intelligent Sunni scholar believes?

I've recommended that you read the Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran. If you want to learn about Islam, that is what I recommend. If you do it or not is up to you and is your responsibility. — Ram

You're here proclaiming Islam to be the true religion and you're unable to even properly defend it. Isn't that a sin? When you are summoned to defend your beliefs from sincere challenge, you need to do so right?

We don't share values. I don't care about our alleged shared values or what you think and don't expect you to follow what I think. You think what you think, I think what I think. I am fine with that and don't expect you to think like me and don't care about what others think. I go off what I think. — Ram

So you're not interested in what anyone else thinks, and believe that you and your beliefs are the best thing since sliced bread... Not untypical levels of arrogance...

Why should assume this life is a test? Well... do you believe in the Quran? It seems- no. Well, if you believe in the Quran you believe this life is a test. I believe in the Quran. If you don't, you don't. — Ram

Why should I believe in the Qur'an?

You said what would I do if God told me to sacrifice my child. I never said anything about God telling me to do something like that and I don't hear God telling me to do things. I go off the Quran and the Sunnah. If God suddenly appeared to me and I believed it was God.... I guess so. But I seriously doubt that would happen and I've known a lot of Muslims and Christians and I've never encountered a case where that occurred. — Ram

It's one of the archetypal stories found in the Abrahamic religions (Islam included). God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son, and he was ready to do it. It was a test of devotion, and it's scary that people are ready to believe they communicate with god to a degree that they (you) would actually kill other human beings, including their own son, if they believe god told them to do so.

So you're not interested in what anyone else thinks, and believe that you and your beliefs are the best thing since sliced bread... Not untypical levels of arrogance... — VagabondSpectre

It is an understatement to say that Islam is far superior to mere sliced bread.

It's one of the archetypal stories found in the Abrahamic religions (Islam included). God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son, and he was ready to do it. It was a test of devotion, and it's scary that people are ready to believe they communicate with god to a degree that they (you) would actually kill other human beings, including their own son, if they believe god told them to do so. — VagabondSpectre

Yes, I'm well aware that God tested Abraham (PBUH) in that way. But I've never personally encountered any cases where a Muslim or a Christian said God told them to do that. I think it's more likely for a kid to get eaten by a shark or hit by lightning than for that to actually happen. Atheists use that as an argument but it almost never actually happens. I go off the Quran and the Sunnah, I don't hear God talking to me.

You're here proclaiming Islam to be the true religion and you're unable to even properly defend it. Isn't that a sin? When you are summoned to defend your beliefs from sincere challenge, you need to do so right? — VagabondSpectre

Allah guides whom He wills. No, God does not require me to prove Islam is the true religion or to convince you. Allah guides whom He wills. I'm not responsible for what you believe.

What about Islam is true? All of it? The parts you believe are true? The parts the most intelligent Sunni scholar believes? — VagabondSpectre

All of Islam is true.

Why should I believe in the Qur'an? — VagabondSpectre

Because it is the word of Allah.

Should I study ancient Greek texts before I dismiss Zeus as god? Telling me to read this or that isn;t going to persuade me. I'm not interested in what you've read, I'm interested in what you know and can demonstrate to be true. — VagabondSpectre

It isn't about persuading you. I've done my part by pointing in the right direction. What you do is up to you. Allah guides whom He wills. I've said this enough times that insha'Allah you might understand it.

Should you study Greek texts before dismissing Zeus?? Zeus is fictitious. Allah is not fictitious.

Believe me or don't. You're going to meet Him.

Maybe? You think?

Where are you're lofty "objective" standards at? — VagabondSpectre

Allah knows best. Right and wrong are independent of what I think.

Different religions tell different stories about what god(s) want. How do you know the set of stories you were born into or adopted are the right set of stories? — VagabondSpectre

That is a long story and I'm not interested in telling you my biography. Believe or don't.

Shia experts have similar stories about how Sunni's are the misguided ones. Stop fooling yourself. What is the evidence that shows Sunni Islam to be true and Shia Islam to be false? If I take your word for it, or the word of Sunni scholars, why shouldn't I take the word of Shia's and Shia scholars? — VagabondSpectre

"Shia experts"- no such thing. The Shia are wrong.

If you want to learn more about the Shia stuff, you would need to learn about Islam first. Then we could go into that. That is a whole other subject and you would need to go into other resources. You don't get all your knowledge off forum posts.

I don't hear God talking to me. — Ram

The point is that you think you have god-given truth, and you're willing to kill others and yourself if you think that's what your god-truth mandates. That's scary.

All of Islam is true. — Ram

Which version of Islam?

Because it is the word of Allah. — Ram

How do you know it is the word of Allah?

It isn't about persuading you. I've done my part by pointing in the right direction. What you do is up to you. Allah guides whom He wills. I've said this enough times that insha'Allah you might understand it. — Ram

If anything you've given me the impression that you've bought into Islam without the slightest care to question the validity of the beliefs it entails. You would rather dogmatically follow your existing beliefs than honestly test them.

Should you study Greek texts before dismissing Zeus?? Zeus is fictitious. Allah is not fictitious. — Ram

How do you know, though? It kind of seems like if you can just dismiss Zeus as fictitious, I can just dismiss God/Allah/Yahweh/Jehovah as also fictitious.

Doesn't it seem fictitious? Have you ever seen an angel? A miracle? What if the prophets just made things up? what if people just embellished things after their deaths?

Believe me or don't. You're going to meet Him. — Ram

So you're motivated by fear I see (else, why would you try to warn me so...).

What if I am god, and this conversation is your actual test. What if god wants people to form their own beliefs instead of just believing the bull-shit of others to such a degree that they're ready to kill and die over subsequent disagreement?

That is a long story and I'm not interested in telling you my biography. Believe or don't. — Ram

I didn't ask for your story, I asked why you think your stories are true.

"Shia experts"- no such thing. The Shia are wrong. — Ram

Shiites say the same thing about Sunnis. Seems like you're both wrong.

If you want to learn more about the Shia stuff, you would need to learn about Islam first. Then we could go into that. That is a whole other subject and you would need to go into other resources. You don't get all your knowledge off forum posts. — Ram

You don't actually know how familiar or unfamiliar I am with Islam and I'm not interested in exploring the Qur'an or and hadith with someone who refuses to honestly face my questions from the get go.

Welcome to philosophy. It's about questioning your potentially bad ideas. Live long and prosper...

You don't even have to take it from me. If you want to know Existentialism- my title basically just boiled it down in a nutshell. Take it from Sartre if you don't want to take it from me. — Ram

What is cogent in existentialism is the choice of the individual.

You choose to follow Islam. That's fine, go right ahead. You can follow the precepts and not have to think about moral issues again.

Others will not choose Islam, but instead to make moral judgements for themselves.

Point being, it's down to the individual to make the choice.

But some choose to hide their moral choices behind religious pretence.

And what are those methods? — Ram

Common decency, for a start. Including not inflicting ones own views on others. You know, not stoning an adulteress, not asking someone to sacrifice their son, allowing homosexuals to live, that sort of thing.

Compared with which, a mutually agreed, pleasurable fuck amongst family is small cheese.

Agreed

In the end you have absolutely no justification for your deity other than the faith that It is whatever It is. I'm thoroughly disinterested in this sort of thought, for those who think themselves to be wise are indeed the most unwise (Socrates -paraphrase)
Existentialism has all kinds of ideas about right and wrong, Sartre is not existentialism. You are already in Bad Faith, in terms of Sartre, but that is another discussion.
The idea that something is wrong and you are against nature or deviant or vile or sick or sinful or selfish, etc etc, because you do a particular thing that is not measurably negatively affecting anyone (which is what religion is stocked full of) is a disgrace to the human intellect.
One CAN indeed base morality upon something atheistic. How about love? How about happiness like John Mill?
But trying to base morality in something other than the morality of a particular thing, which is always based on intuition and feeling, is completely severing that moral component of the psyche from its typical spot. Moralists want an objective truth of morality, something like a constant reference point by which man could become God and judge, for that is the root of the psyche in terms of God... To be God... Or try to be. That is the ideal. Nothing like this will ever be. What about Robin Hood? The train track dilemma? You have philosophical , moral dilemmas precisely because there is no absolute reference point of a moral claim: there is only the intuition and faith of a particular right or wrong. In the end, people base themselves not upon what is supposed but what is believed to be known, known as if it were known... And these things known do not come from a book or another persons words but from within the inner workings of their own mind, their associations and their feelings regarding what life is and what their own existence entails.

And if someone bases their life otherwise... It is conditioning... And conditioning is extremely powerful. Its name is obfuscation of association.

Yes, it is what you do when you have the desire... Hmmm...

I am homosexual. I am in a relationshil with a male.

In your eyes you say I am immoral.

In truth, you do not know me. You have an idea of something I may be of or represented to be, but in the end this is abstraction, and the firm base of that which is (me and my relationship) are the actual emotions, feelings and intentions that define. You wish to define and compartmentalize or categorize me and what I supposedly am, but, in reality, what you have labeled me to be as immoral is an impoverished representation the creation of which has absolutely no base in reality at all. You say I am immoral for being a homosexual. I say you are delusional, because you have not even addressed me in the first place.

So if god asks you to sacrifice your only son as a test, you would do it?
— VagabondSpectre

Hopefully. — Ram

This is Islam at its worst. Submission; even unto that which is morally abhorrent.

Morality from a secular position is necessarily subjective. — Ram

I have a question based on sexual ethics:

What is wrong with consenting adults who understand the emotional and mental ramifications of their actions as well as the perception of the community and the effect thereof, when they interact in:
a) Incest
b) Fornication
c) Adultery (I don't mean cheating on spouse, more along the lines of swinging and orgies and all the married parties are present or aware and are ok with it)?

(You may be inclined to give an answer based on your religious edicts of morality, but, remember to show how it is objective.)