• Baden
    5.8k
    This discussion was created with comments split from The Shoutbox
  • frank
    1k
    Christianity is a dead religion. It's a vestige of a world now gone. It's absurd stories and ridiculous requirements have been superseded by secular authority and science. Good riddance.
  • JaiGD
    7
    That's so 2008.

    I thought Big Jordan Peterson was bringing it back?
  • frank
    1k
    :grin: Does he do miracles?
  • JaiGD
    7
    Hell no.

    He just knows how to tap into people's insecurities.
  • frank
    1k
    Do bizarre fantasies really help insecure people? Or does it just make them more insecure and slave-like?

    I think we should do away with tax exemption for churches, though.
  • JaiGD
    7
    Probably both.. Fantasy has yin and yang components
  • Agustino
    11.1k
    Christianity is a dead religion.frank
    This statement needs some unpacking. Christianity is dead in the sense that its symbols no longer resonate for Western man - that much is true. And Christianity has been "dying" in this sense ever since Nietzsche proclaimed that "God is dead, and we have killed him". Christianity has lost its authenticity in other words. The symbols used by the Christian religion no longer "make sense" to the way of being of the average Joe in the Western world. Christianity has lost its vitality.

    Christianity has become legalistic. The meaning behind the words is lost. All we have left are the words, and without the meaning, the words are, of course, empty and absurd. To revive Christianity we have to recover the meaning, we have to re-invent the meaning. We have to re-paint the white fence white again, since it has darkened with the passage of time.

    Although as a side note, Christianity is doing great in Latin America and China.

    It's absurd stories and ridiculous requirements have been superseded by secular authority and science.frank
    But it's not because the stories are absurd, or the requirements are ridiculous. They are absolutely not. It's because "secular man" does not have the openness required to understand them. The social environment is inimical to Christianity, and as such, Christianity cannot but be misunderstood by the masses. To talk of a hedonistic AND Christian age at one and the same time is indeed a contradiction in terms. They are two parallel worlds. The evils currently seen in the world are interpreted, by science and secular authority, as necessary. As the nature of existence. Hence the prevailing acceptance of a (misunderstood) nihilistic religion like Buddhism.
  • Noble Dust
    3k


    Woah there, Berdyaev. :razz:
  • 0 thru 9
    547
    The evils currently seen in the world are interpreted, by science and secular authority, as necessary. As the nature of existence. Hence the prevailing acceptance of a (misunderstood) nihilistic religion like Buddhism.Agustino

    Sorry... I realize this is the Shoutbox, but this statement might also need to be unpacked if you don’t mind. Are you perhaps saying that Buddhism is accepted only or mostly because it is misunderstood? If so, what does that mean? If not, what did you mean?

    And as I understand it, Buddhism is mostly (though not always) non-theistic. But that doesn’t necessarily make it “nihilistic”. And as you probably know, Buddhism can function as a religion, a philosophy, or both.

    I would agree with most of the rest of your post though. :up: Christianity (maybe just in the West) has lost vitality or at least something important (if difficult) to define. What the cause might be is up for debate. In my opinion and for whatever it may be worth, the long history of those in power using Christian beliefs as a pure white robe to parade around in is a large factor.
  • frank
    1k
    But it's not because the stories are absurd, .Agustino

    God became flesh. He had himself crucified in order to redeem his own creation. It's the ravings of a lunatic.
  • frank
    1k
    In my opinion and for whatever it may be worth, the long history of those in power using Christian beliefs as a pure white robe to parade around in is a large factor.0 thru 9

    You might be surprised to discover how long ago the Pope was first identified as Antichrist. And of of course To Mega Therion has always been lurking. :)
  • Hanover
    3.7k
    Christianity is alive and well.
  • frank
    1k
    A church is a museum.
  • Hanover
    3.7k
    Then how is it I can tell the difference between the two?
  • csalisbury
    1.4k
    God became flesh. He had himself crucified in order to redeem his own creation. It's the ravings of a lunatic.frank

    Ah no, its sublime. Especially if you throw in a twist of christ forgetting he is God, or doubting it. Its a beautiful myth. Not saying I believe it (tho I kinda do, just allegorically) but either way its pretty good.
  • frank
    1k
    So how does this propitiatory sacrifice work out beautifully for you?

    The suffering of christ did what exactly?
  • csalisbury
    1.4k
    I don't see it in terms of propitiation, otherwise it would be insane (propitiating oneself.)

    It's more like: If the universe were created intentionally, then any olive branch(or rainbow) from the force that created it, while remaining outside it, would be meaningless. Any communication from outside-the-world to people inside-the-world would be condescending at best. But, if that force were to voluntarily enter the world (and if he forgets he made that choice, or at least occasionally doubts that he really is God, and so has to live out his days like the rest of us, its even better) then there is some actual connection established. It's not propitiation, its solidarity.
  • frank
    1k
    Sounds like Nikos Kazantzakis.
  • csalisbury
    1.4k
    Never read him, but I did like Scorsese's Last Temptation. But - I don't know about the book - the movie focused primarily on the subjective experience of Christ, Christ-as-existential-hero. That's only one half.

    In any case, even without Kazantzakis, you have Christ throwing out psalms 22:1 on the cross.
  • frank
    1k
    Kazantzakis makes me want to stick a fork in my eye, although I also like the movie.

    To believe that the divine knows the depths of one's grief, not from watching it from on far, but from within is beautiful.

    It's a Tibetan Buddhist thing as well.
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