What is "normal"?

Shawn

"Normal" is a word that I have grown to reject using on the basis of ambiguity and inexactness. It has its uses in very contextually dependent circumstances, such as psychiatry and psychological settings. But, even psychiatrists and psychologists reject this term on grounds of never being able to establish what it means based on the incredible plasticity that human beings posses.

It's a strange word because it derives its meaning from what is 'abnormal'. What do you call a word that derives its meaning from exclusion of what it is thought to mean? Is this de facto how the term "normal" derives its meaning? Isn't that bona fide nonsense labeled as something sensical?

People strive to be "normal" all the time, due to various psychological reasons or needs, such as wanting to belong to a group or nation or community. I feel as though the term has become or is easily weaponized to exclude behavior deviating from some established 'norm' to fit into some inclusive group mentality of sorts. I see it happening all around, as people thinking they don't belong to some norm of behavior and labeling themselves as 'misfits' or 'strange' or 'outliers'.

So, what is 'normal'?

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ArguingWAristotleTiff

So, what is 'normal'? — Posty McPostface

Normal to me is what I expect and am often disappointed in not attaining. Though I have found a level of contentment to make up when I feel less than normal.

unenlightened

Think this answers the question comprehensively.

Christina

Since morals don't represent or concentrate some sort of "eternal truth", then the ethically charged concept of normality is a changing concept of our social etiquette and of an individual' s personal system of values. Especially the term "normal" doesn't really have a definition of its own and it hasn't even been thematized as an autunomous term.

andrewk

Normal is a probability distribution with density function exp(-(x-u)^2/2s^2)/sqrt(2 pi).
Normal is a vector pointing away from a plane at right angles.
Norm is the length of a vector.
Normal is a subgroup which is invariant under conjugation by members of the group of which it is a part.

Any other uses of the word 'normal' are highly suspect and best avoided.

BC

↪Posty McPostface

"Normal" isn't derived from "abnormal".

Normal is like... usual, standard, ordinary, customary, conventional, habitual, accustomed, expected, wonted; typical, stock, common, everyday, regular, routine, established, set, fixed, traditional, time-honored. The world is full of normal stuff.

If you measured all of the rocks on a beach, you might find that the average weight of the rocks was 8.234788 oz. Here is a rock that is 8.234481 oz. Is it abnormal? No. Actually none of the rocks on the beach weigh exactly 8.234788 ounces. All of them weigh more or less.

Humans do manifest plasticity, but we also manifest variability -- like the rocks on the beach. All are normal rocks but none of them are the exact average. People are an average at the same time that they are all slightly different.

Humans can all be different and still be all normal.

If your dog sleeps on your bed when you are at work, it isn't being a bad dog -- it is just doing what normal dogs do. If it can, it will lay with its head on your pillow, drooling, and will press its smelly ear against the comfortable cushion. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it abnormal.

If your dog prepares you a lovely meal and sets the table, THAT is very nice and very abnormal. Really bizarre. Totally perverted.

gurugeorge

↪Posty McPostface

Normal is basically just average or common with regard to a particular group. For example, heterosexuality is normal because most people are in fact heterosexual.

It's not really a concept that ought to cause any confusion, but I think sometimes people confuse normal with normative, and then take either a boo or hooray stance wrt their own confused concept.

Shawn

What if we included words like, "crazy" or "dysfunctional" into the discussion. Would that better address the issue in any way pertaining what is thought to be "normal"?

Baden

Normal is what you are when you haven't figured out a better option and what you aspire to when you're stuck in a worse one.

deletedmemberwy

Normal is a setting on the dryer, as my brothers says. :wink: In other words, it seems like most people are unique.

Pattern-chaser

"Normal" is a word that I have grown to reject using on the basis of ambiguity and inexactness. — Posty McPostface

That's a shame. It's utility lies in its ambiguity and inexactitude. :up:

It's a strange word because it derives its meaning from what is 'abnormal'. — Posty McPostface

I don't think so. I think it derives from the norm, and means typical or average. In ambiguous and inexact terms, of course. :wink:

Andrew4Handel

I think normal when it applies to humans is based on problematic teleological conceptions.

For example a heart has a function so a heart can behave normally or abnormally. But ironically the human being kept alive by that heart appears to have no function. We have the existential problem of trying to make sense of our existence or to make it meaningful.

I think society functions based on unreflected norms and then occasional as the case with slavery and racism these norms are challenged.

Being abnormal in a dysfunctional and unethical society can be blamed on society and not the individual depending on how you isolate a cause for behaviour and pathology.

I think to be authentic you have to explore the intellectual basis of societies values and take nothing for granted.

Andrew4Handel

It seems almost as if humans are the only creatures to lack teleology because other animals and organisms have some quite fixed behaviours and a lack of cognitive and behavioural flexibility in comparison to the extreme diversity and possibility found in humans.

But paradoxically this freedom is not necessarily a good thing and it leads me to existential angst.

People might chose conformity to norms to escape existential angst.

Shawn

But paradoxically this freedom is not necessarily a good thing and it leads me to existential angst.

People might chose conformity to norms to escape existential angst. — Andrew4Handel

"Angst" is a problem that philosophy has to deal with. It can be remedied by rational analysis of some situation and working on the answers provided by "reason". I'm a firm believer in rationality and think it's the only solution provided to the problem of philosophical "angst".

Andrew4Handel

↪Posty McPostface

I think rationality is problematic without teleology or an inherent function or purpose for humans to violate.

I think rationality crosses the is/ought barrier. I think there can only be a wrong way to behave or think or react if their is a right way, but I don't think there is a right way.

I find reason leads me to anxiety whereas sometimes blind faith or unwarranted optimism might make someone feel better.

There is something of a paradox. Imagine if believing in or following a false religion makes you feel better, should you abandon this belief system even if it makes you feel worse?
Is it irrational to follow the "truth" if it ends up being against your self interest?

I sympathise with the idea that rationality would improve society and create better norms. However it could be that there is no good society to be had.
I think challenging norms can mean facing hostility even if you are in the right because you are trying to take people out of their comfort zone. I can't see an easy path out of this quagmire.

Shawn

I find reason leads me to anxiety whereas sometimes blind faith or unwarranted optimism might make someone feel better. — Andrew4Handel

I have yet to read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Will_to_Believe

It might remedy the anxiety. We could be wrong, but what about it?

Andrew4Handel

↪Posty McPostface

This and Pascal's wager are quite useful tools for weighing up the cost of belief. I can't just believe anything but in a case of uncertainty or ignorance it seems optimism is more fruitful.

Shawn

↪Andrew4Handel

As they say, 'good luck'. :blush:

Andrew4Handel

↪Posty McPostface

We all need it.

Shawn

We all need it. — Andrew4Handel

What's bothering you, as you seem sad? Is it depression?

Andrew4Handel

↪Posty McPostface

Depression, Anxiety, Aspergers ,family, family religion, uncertainty and so on.

Shawn

Depression, Anxiety, Aspergers ,family, family religion, uncertainty and so on. — Andrew4Handel

I'm sorry to hear. I hope you feel better.

Let's talk about depression then. How is it affecting you? What can you say about it philosophically?

Shawn

↪Andrew4Handel

?

Andrew4Handel

↪Posty McPostface

I don't have any philosophical insight into the depression accept that it makes me fatigued.

It feels like a dead end I suppose. Although depression is a mental condition it feels bodily for me.

I don't know if reason has led me to depression or something purely bodily is causing it.

There is the issue of how reason or judgement effects the emotions and how the mind or emotions effect the body. Can a Negative thought cause bodily infirmity. What is happening in a mind-body interaction? I made a thread once about whether pain was a warning that something was unhealthy in society as well as one's self.

Shawn

Can a Negative thought cause bodily infirmity. What is happening in a mind-body interaction? I made a thread once about whether pain was a warning that something was unhealthy in society as well as one's self. — Andrew4Handel

Interesting question. The mind-body dualism comes apart when dealing with depression.

So, mind-body are same.

Andrew4Handel

It seems to me that normal is a powerful force because people are motivated to be normal or they see the normal as acceptable because it is prolific.

How many things are acceptable because they are normal (or prolific) or due to rigorous reason and argumentation etc.

Andrew4Handel

The mind-body dualism comes apart when dealing with depression.

So, mind-body are same. — Posty McPostface

If the mind and body are the same that could mean everything is the mind. I think the causality issue is unresolved. But dualism is also available were the mind and body are different entities but can somehow interact.

I think all our experiences are mental including ones that make us believe in the physical such as the sensation of a hard rock. But there is still a difference between our perception of the mental and physical where inner states are more abstract.

I haven't resolved how much of my depression is based on physicality or mentality/reason. I think you can use models of the physical and mental together though to try and combat mental illness.

What is "normal"?

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