• Pattern-chaser
    370
    Metaphysics, in philosophy, deals with the underlying principles behind reality.wellwisher

    There are no "underlying principles" behind reality. Reality is the master, the reference, and the principles you refer to are simply the results of human observations (and our analysis of those observations). This may seem like a nit-pick, but it's not. It's important to be crystal clear about what is the reference, and what is derived. The principles you refer to are derived. Reality doesn't need them; it just is, and works without the influence of, or need for, human-formulated 'principles'. Our attempts at understanding are admirable, but they do not bind reality, they reflect it. Reality is the master.

    The rest of what you say appears to be a consideration of how humans create their speculations and hypotheses. An interesting topic, I agree, but I'm not quite clear on what it has to do with metaphysics. :chin:
  • Relativist
    239


    No, [dark matter and dark energy] are part of a hypothetical physical (as in 'physics') system. Metaphysics, as I understand it, is not what you think.
    I agree, but it would be helpful to define "physical". I offer the following definition:

    The physical includes all objects that are pardigmatically considered physical*, the properties and objects that account for these paradigmatic objects, and all other objects that have those properties or are composed of any of the objects in the account.

    * i.e. the stuff of everyday experience, and taken for granted as being "physical". The concept is grounded in our hard-wired perceptual capacities to interact with an external world.
  • wellwisher
    163
    For many centuries the physical earth was thought to be flat. The philosophy of the time would extrapolate based on this underlying principle. The physical universe is what it is. One day we will know all the answers. In the mean time, it is not always obvious what it is. This is where the unconscious, via the imagination, picks up subtle data, organizes perception, creates doubt, or adds further insight into the true nature of reality. Underlying principles is an evolving paradigm. While reality is fixed.

    Dark matter and dark energy are similar to the flat earth in the sense it is based on imaginary expectations, which appear to overlap physical observations. It is a theory but it can't be shown to be true in the lab anymore than show big foot can be observed in the lab. We can infer big foot from what appears to be foot prints, but he is elusive.

    There is wild card. This is based on which of the firmware is being used to interpret the physical data. The brain has various levels of firmware, which have different natural uses, but which can be used for purposes different from what they are geared for.

    There are three basic levels, with variation in each level, as well as overlap of levels. The lowest, in terms of the evolutionary foundation of the firmware, is connected to natural human instinct. The middle level is connected to relationship and the third level is connected to meaning.

    Firmware of relationship organize observation based on how things appear to relate to each other. Long standing traditions use this approach. Objects and people are organized in terms of how they are expected to relate, whether this is optimized, rational or not. A family may have a unique holiday tradition in terms of decorating and cooking. This is not necessarily based on reason or optimization but is often connected to emotional connections; sentiment. It may represent a glory day that is being memorialized in hopes of being recreated anew.

    Monarchies were big in the past due to this middle level induction. Some monarchies carry forward based on sentiment. Mythological systems were more then likely generated by middle level firmware. The firmware is also in science, such as in biology. Life is assumed to be based on random principles, even though data, 50 years ago, showed that protein folding was deterministic. Protein folding was predicted to be random but was not. In spite of this major flaw; flat earth, biology opted to continue the traditions; old time relationships.

    The firmware of meaning is similar to relationship and evolved from it, however, this organization of relationship is organized around logic and spatial reasoning; differential and integral, without using an emotional attachment. The flat earth theory lasted centuries due to being induced by middle level firmware and being a way to induce middle level firmware via learning. This tradition gave a sense of conviction due to a natural reward system in the brain that encourages the use of firmware.

    During the flat earth firmware induction, firmware of meaning were also active in some who organized the data in a different way and got closer to reality; round. However, this was not how it was supposed to relate, so this insight was delayed from wide scale acceptance. The reason for the delay was this insight too took away the buzz cased by the older induced middle level firmware. Instead it triggered the lowest level firmware; fear of novelty.

    My approach is to show the behind the scenes working of the brain in terms of consciousness.
  • Pattern-chaser
    370
    You talk much of firmware, and I wonder if you mean the same by it as I do, having spent 32 years designing and building firmware. Do you just mean "software", as this is only an analogy anyway? [We all know that brains aren't actually computers, don't we? :wink:] I just wondered. But let's continue.

    The firmware of meaning is similar to relationship and evolved from it, however, this organization of relationship is organized around logic and spatial reasoning; differential and integral, without using an emotional attachment.wellwisher

    Your posts seem to be filled with absolute assertions. You never say "might be" or "seems to be", you say only "is". And yet you offer little in the way of justification. Admittedly, these things are difficult enough to discuss meaningfully, never mind justify. But all you seem to offer is an explanation for those who don't understand as you do, with no indication that you are even aware of alternative views. So let's have a good look at what you think. It may well prove interesting.

    But your views seem quite novel, and could do with examination and consideration, not just an assertive exposition. You state above, for example, that meaning is "organised" (?) "without using an emotional attachment". For humans, some things are of moderate significance, and we have little or no emotional attachment to them. But other things are significant to us, and to them we are emotionally attached. And not just a bit either. It's a human thing. I offer no explanation or justification for that; it's just something we humans do. And it can be verified by simple observation. It isn't difficult to see or to find, and it isn't uncommon. So why would you state that there is no emotional attachment associated with meaning? :chin:

    My approach is to show the behind the scenes working of the brain in terms of consciousness.wellwisher

    Do you mean to refer to stuff that is within, or without, conscious awareness when you say "behind the scenes working"? :chin:
  • wellwisher
    163
    You talk much of firmware, and I wonder if you mean the same by it as I do, having spent 32 years designing and building firmware. Do you just mean "software", as this is only an analogy anyway? [We all know that brains aren't actually computers, don't we? :wink:] I just wondered. But let's continue.Pattern-chaser

    By firmware, I am speaking of a type of software analogy, where the laws of physical chemistry are used as the programming language, so the line between software and hardware is not clear cut. I call this ambiguous state of affairs; firmware. Computer and human language is manmade, so there is a distinction between the hardware and software, since each works with different principles; human logic for software versus physical chemical logic for the hardware.

    As example of the firmware that I speak of, the leaves of certain trees will change color in the fall. With computers, we can design software to change the parameters of the hardware so the monitor will simulate this color change. But wth the tree, changes in light and temperature, will alter the chemical environment so new chemical pathways become engaged. This is what I mean by firmware. It is a natural language, based on the laws of physical chemistry, that can be used to alter the state of the physical system in a logical and directed way.

    Neurons expand up to 90% of their energy pumping and exchanging ions. They are pushing the neuron up an energy hill and storing potential energy. This is not a stable steady state since natural systems wish to lower energy. The brain lowers this energy in a controlled manner and uses the energy to alter the physical chemical environment in a logical and directed way so the output affects from the mind and body seem to have a software underlay; firmware.

    Your posts seem to be filled with absolute assertions. You never say "might be" or "seems to be", you say only "is". And yet you offer little in the way of justification. Admittedly, these things are difficult enough to discuss meaningfully, never mind justify. But all you seem to offer is an explanation for those who don't understand as you do, with no indication that you are even aware of alternative views. So let's have a good look at what you think. It may well prove interesting.Pattern-chaser

    I began my interest in the unconscious mind back in the early 1980's. I ran unconscious mind experiments on myself to help explore and map out the psyche. Even though I had good and unique data, I came to realized nobody would believe me. This was not my educational specialty, but more of a hobby, and nobody would listen or take me serious.

    I decided I needed to demonstrate a practical application from my research; demonstrate my enhanced creativity due to my rapport with the unconscious. Using this creative edge, I have pondered and written about the entire range of science and knowledge for decades. I have looked at consciousness from many angles in science, religion and philosophy and I have reached a steady state, where my explanations are consistent through all related areas from physical bio-chemistry to psychology to philosophy. It is not that I don't listen, but rather I have already heard, created and considered all these things over the many years of my journey.

    But your views seem quite novel, and could do with examination and consideration, not just an assertive exposition. You state above, for example, that meaning is "organised" (?) "without using an emotional attachment". For humans, some things are of moderate significance, and we have little or no emotional attachment to them. But other things are significant to us, and to them we are emotionally attached. And not just a bit either. It's a human thing. I offer no explanation or justification for that; it's just something we humans do. And it can be verified by simple observation. It isn't difficult to see or to find, and it isn't uncommon. So why would you state that there is no emotional attachment associated with meaning? :chin:Pattern-chaser

    When the brain writes memory to the cerebral matter, aspects of the limbic system, in the core region of the brain, attach emotional tags to the memory. Our memory is composed of sensory content and emotional tagging. This schema is useful to the animal. If the animal sees a similar situation as memory, he will feel the attached feeling and can react to the feeling without thinking. If the animal sees the same food and he feels good about the food; from memory, he does not have to reinvent the wheel before he eats. He reacts to the feeling.

    If the emotional tagging was to get very subtle, then one cannot easily react to the stimulus in the same linear ways the animal, since there is not compelling emotion. Mr Spock, by shutting off his emotions, has an impact on the tagging process. The conscious mind will need another way to deal with such data and memory; logic or dogma. If the logic is correct there can still be a bulk tagging, with a feeling tag of conviction. Although the ego may need to use logic for the raw data with subtle tagging, the unconscious mind, via the firmware, can organize this data using basic firmware organizational pattern; firmware of meaning.

    Humans collect so much cultural data that the brain does not see the need to tag everything as important to natural survival. However, it still stores the data but with less energy expenditure in the tagging process and organization process. It is subtle and needs practice to read.
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