• frank
    14.5k
    If it was a statue honoring Groucho Marx, I could understand it, but Karl Marx? Why on earth would China lay a statue of Marx on Germany? Is it meant to be an insult? Thoughts?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44009621
  • Marcus de Brun
    440
    Possibly a gesture of goodwill, in return for all the Rhino horn that was pinched from Museums, in order to facilitate Chinese horns.

    M
  • frank
    14.5k
    Rhino horns? I was wondering more about what China is hoping to express to the world with the gesture.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    That's like asking why a cheesecake is made with cheese.

    China is communist after all, and most tourists to Marx homeplace are from China.
  • Marcus de Brun
    440


    Isn't it obvious..

    China likes to pretend it's brutal version of Capitalism, is still wedded to Communist ideals.
  • frank
    14.5k
    You're thinking that it's standard procedure for countries to give statues to one another. One of the most famous cases of it: the Statue of Liberty in NY, NY, was a symbol of solidarity between France and the US. Is there supposed to be solidarity between China and Germany?

    As the article in the OP mentioned, the gap between rich and poor in China is growing due to its embrace of capitalist practices. So I don't think it's a cheese situation.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Isn't it obvious..

    China likes to pretend it's brutal version of Capitalism, is still wedded to Communist ideals.
    Marcus de Brun

    Maybe, but why not celebrate Marx in China? Surely they can find a spot somewhere. Why bestow the statue on Germany?
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    You're thinking that it's standard procedure for countries to give statues to one another. One of the most famous cases of it: the Statue of Liberty in NY, NY was a symbol of solidarity between France and the US. Is there supposed to be solidarity between China and Germany?frank

    The ulterior motive is good PR, rather obviously. China is trying to build something called the One Belt Road or something like that, that would create a corridor of trade between Europe and China, and they are trying really hard to appeal to the world in a positive light.

    As the article in the OP mentioned, the gap between rich and poor in China is growing due to its embrace of capitalist practices. So I don't think it's a cheese situation.frank

    That's something the current leader of China is trying to solve. I don't follow the news in China that much; but, from what I gather Xi Jinping wants to go back to or appeal to communist ideals for the poor last I remember.
  • Akanthinos
    1k


    ... because Marx is a German author, and his influence on the history of the last century exceeds the influence of any single book ever written, with the exception of the Bible or perhaps the Koran.

    Yes, Marx is Modern Jesus. Deal with it. :cool:
  • frank
    14.5k
    Are we waiting for a Second Coming?
  • frank
    14.5k
    The ulterior motive is good PR,Posty McPostface

    Really? If it was meant as a symbol of a bond between Germany and China, why not a Beethoven statue? I sense something other than plain good will.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    I sense something other than plain good will.frank

    Like what?
  • frank
    14.5k
    Not sure. Maybe a prelude to a flex of its generous financial muscles.
  • Akanthinos
    1k
    Really? If it was meant as a symbol of a bond between Germany and China, why not a Beethoven statue? I sense something other than plain good will.frank

    Really? What's the shared history of China and Beethoven (besides the trillion of great chinese pianists?). Perhaps are you just having too much of a hard time wrapping your head around the idea that for many, Marx was a great intellectual (and not Leftist-Hitler)?
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    I like China. They actually build bunkers for citizens in case of a nuclear war, instead of for politicians. And, I don't think they're lunatic like the presidents we had in the US. Not to portray them in a shining light of gold and silver; but, they've come along from the tendencies of Mao.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Really? What's the shared history of China and Beethoven (besides the trillion of great chinese pianists?). Perhaps are you just having too much of a hard time wrapping your head around the idea that for many, Marx was a great intellectual?Akanthinos

    If it was merely a goodwill gesture, China could have chosen a statue that wouldn't have resulted in protest marches in Germany. I'm sure the Chinese know Marx is a controversial figure. Beethoven isn't.

    Was Marx a great intellectual in your view?
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    It's Marx's 200th birthday. Marx was born in Trier, Germany, which is where the statue was sent, and China likes Marx.

    As a German citizen I can attest to the fact that Marx is not a four letter word in Europe the way it is in America. Not saying we all love him. But it's not the knee-jerk rejection of anything to do with him and his ideas that you get in the states.
  • frank
    14.5k
    They actually build bunkers for citizens in case of a nuclear war,Posty McPostface

    They have 1.37 billion people. That's a lot of bunkers.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    They have 1.37 billion people. That's a lot of bunkers.frank

    Hey, will I give them an A for effort instead of adopting MAD policies of holding your enemies population hostage and exclusively saving the same people who profess such an ideology.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Have you been the US?
  • frank
    14.5k
    Hey, will I give them an A for effort instead of adopting MAD policies of holding your enemies population hostage and exclusively saving the same people who profess such an ideology.Posty McPostface

    What do you mean "holding your enemies population hostage?"
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    In MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction), you hold your enemies resources, population, buildings, land hostage, and so does your enemy to prevent nuclear war. That's the penalty for breaching the rules of the game. Thing is it just takes one lunatic or simple mistake to end everything that you hold dear. The premise of the whole game is that you hope your enemy is as rational as you are.

    Too high a price to pay to maintain such a strategy, as I've always thought.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Thankfully, the USSR collapsed and the stand-off ended.
  • Akanthinos
    1k
    If it was merely a goodwill gesturefrank

    What else could it be? It's not Trojan Horse waiting to disgorge an army of chinese contortionnists...

    China could have chosen a statue that wouldn't have resulted in protest marches in Germany.frank

    Why would China care for that?

    I'm sure the Chinese know Marx is a controversial figure.frank

    Not so controversial for anyone with an historical, economical or philosophical education, or someone who hasn't had their mind rotten by the american school system.

    Was Marx a great intellectual in your view?frank

    Yes, indubitably. You don't have to shill for someone to recognize that he is one of the great ones.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    Thankfully, the USSR collapsed and the stand-off ended.frank

    Yeah, living in fear is no fun. Glad we ended up lucky in the end.
  • frank
    14.5k
    What else could it be? It's not Trojan Horse waiting to disgorge an army of chinese contortionnists...Akanthinos

    Well it was 15 ft tall. Somebody should probably check.

    Yes, indubitably. You don't have to shill for someone to recognize that he is one of the great ones.Akanthinos

    He arose from global angst. His thought was global revolution. Others imagined attacking the problem one small piece at a time. The names of the moderates are not as well known, but they won in the end. Look at China's economy for proof of that.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Yeah, living in fear is no fun. Glad we ended up lucky in the end.Posty McPostface

    Yep. :up:
  • Uber
    125
    The title of this thread is misleading. The municipal government of Trier, Marx's birth city, accepted the gift from China. The German federal government had nothing to do with it. Trier accepted the statue mostly because it wanted publicity and tourists.

    Xi gave a speech last week in front of delegates at the Great Hall of the People honoring Marx's life and legacy. Marx still has propaganda and ideological value for the Communist Party, even though China's version of state capitalism is something Marx would have probably criticized.

    Marx became one of the most influential thinkers in human history. He got a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong. His analysis of capitalism, despite its many flaws, remains the most insightful and comprehensive one ever attempted.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Marx became one of the most influential thinkers in human history.Uber

    What would you name as significant examples of that influence?
  • Akanthinos
    1k
    He arose from global angst. His thought was global revolution. Others imagined attacking the problem one small piece at a time. The names of the moderates are not as well known, but they won in the end. Look at China's economy for proof of that.frank

    Have you red the Capital? Or any other of his economic texts?

    And no, modern China is about as Imperialistic a country as any of the other powers. Marx nowadays might have prefered modern capitalist (read north-american exc. Mexico and Western European) to Chinese Communism based solely on the degree of social mobility being somewhat higher in the formers than the later.

    The capitalism of Marx's days was a beast to be slain. Such beasts still exists today, and others have grown (like Google) that needs slayin'. Marx is still relevant.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Have you red the Capital?Akanthinos
    One of my copies has margin notes written in Chinese. I got it from a used book store.

    The capitalism of Marx's days was a beast to be slain.Akanthinos

    Agreed.
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