• unenlightened
    2.3k
    Humility...

    “I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.” — Gus Speth
  • frank
    776
    Talking of selfishness, I take from what you said that you and I both know what it's like to live without electricity. We both know how easily the need for it can drop away. Yet we both use it now (if not, how are communicating?)

    How do you justify it? Or do you? What action should you be taking?
  • unenlightened
    2.3k
    How do you justify it? Or do you? What action should you be taking?frank

    I don't justify; I have been an explorer of ways to live, to an extent, and what suits a young man in a warm climate is less suitable when bringing up children, and so on. There is no special virtue in living without electricity that I can see; living without the world news for a while certainly sensitises one. If I was justifying, I'd probably go for urban, squatting running a whole food co-op, alternative schooling, and generally undermining society. A bit more getting amongst the problems rather than escaping from them.
  • frank
    776
    Makes sense. You've inspired me to go back and dwell with the stuff Gandhi said. Be the change you want to see, and other stuff...
  • unenlightened
    2.3k
    OTOH, we might be just as well off eating, drinking and being merry, for tomorrow...
  • frank
    776
    An ancestor of the image of St George slaying the dragon is Horus attacking Set (depicted as a crocodile). Horus was god of arable soil while Set was god of the desert.

    It signifies the victory of order over chaos, rationality over irrationality, culture over lawlessness. Might that be a problem if we're looking to religion for an appropriate ethical outlook? Animosity toward nature goes deep?
  • frank
    776
    I came across the above video. It's an interesting view. The concept of dominance is entirely a product of the human perspective?
  • unenlightened
    2.3k
    I don't buy it. It is not mere fantasy or projection that we talk about a 'pecking order.'
  • frank
    776
    Some want to use Bookchin's view as an antidote to Jordan Peterson. I don't think it works. It becomes self-undermining.

    To the extent that the natural world shows up as a living thing to us, Peterson would seem to say that it's natural that we would want to dominate it. If we countered or tempered that desire, we would be acting against our own nature.

    Do you agree with that?
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