Social roles are things like sons, daughters, students, teachers, etc. How can someone choose their social role when it is a physical relationship with others? How is gender a social role if it can't be chosen, rather it is a physical relationship?

You played yourself. Social roles can't be chosen, gender can't be chosen, no contradiction.

Wouldn't you agree that sex is biological and gender is sociocultural? — BlueBanana

Biological sex is objective, gender is subjective.

yes we all start with wombs. But for most of us sexual differentiation takes place before birth.

Biological sex is objective, gender is subjective. — Buxtebuddha

I agree. An individual still can't make a decision out of their free will to change their gender, just like they can't change their sexuality for example, or opinion or feelings about anything.

Gender is subjective, therefore people choose their gender.

Doesn't follow. Everything I listed is subjective. Self identity in general is subjective but you don't choose it.

do you object? I said generally, and I do hold that their will be exceptions. but for the most part I'd say testosterone leads to a decrease in these traits, and so the less testosterone you have, the more these traits increase. As women generally don't produce testosterone, it would follow that they would be much more open, less aggressive, and more agreeable than their male counterparts. — Mr Phil O'Sophy

I'll acknowledge that the biological variations between men and women can result in personality variations, but I disagree that it is obvious what those are because many traits are socially created, like agreeableness. In fact, your comments suggest you're from a culture more traditional than mine.

I agree. An individual still can't make a decision out of their free will to change their gender, just like they can't change their sexuality for example, or opinion or feelings about anything. — BlueBanana

If your opinion can't be changed, then are you here just to hear yourself talk?

Doesn't follow. Everything I listed is subjective. Self identity in general is subjective but you don't choose it. — BlueBanana

I've not followed anything you've said so far. If gender is subjective, then it is decided upon by the subject - i.e., the person. If a person, thus, decides that they are this gender over another, they have then chosen what their gender is.

If your opinion can't be changed, then are you here just to hear yourself talk? — Hanover

Opinions can be changed, but a person can't just decide to change their own opinion.

Are you claiming people choose all of their subjective opinions and views? Or just gender? Is what you're saying that you could right now choose to be the opposite gender - not just act like that, claim to identify as that gender, take that social role, but actually believe that that is who you are? What about your subjective views on politics, can you just choose to believe in any extremist movements beliefs - and, again, not just that you could physically write their beliefs on your keyboard, but can you right now choose to truly believe in any extremists' claims?

Are you claiming people choose all of their subjective opinions and views? Or just gender? Is what you're saying that you could right now choose to be the opposite gender - not just act like that, claim to identify as that gender, take that social role, but actually believe that that is who you are? What about your subjective views on politics, can you just choose to believe in any extremist movements beliefs - and, again, not just that you could physically write their beliefs on your keyboard, but can you right now choose to truly believe in any extremists' claims? — BlueBanana

Yeah, I guess. If I believe something, I believe in it. Still don't know what you're trying to say, frankly.

So why do you identify as whatever gender you identify as?

That question is separate from not choosing to identify one way or the other.

It is, but I'm asking it anyway.

Well, that was the point in asking those questions.

This reminds me of the "Crying Native American" PSA, where the Native American cries as a result of seeing pollution everywhere. The actor wasn't really a Native American, but an Italian-American and he never admitted that he was anything other than a Native American. He lived with them lived as one of them and took on their causes. Did that make him a Native American?

Its pretty much 99% of the worlds population that have coinciding gender and sex. that would suggest a pretty good correlation between the two. — Mr Phil O'Sophy

Actually the Kinsey report places homosexuality at closer to 10%. Social pressure to suppress these feelings can reduce full expression to around 1-2% though.

gender and sex — Mr Phil O'Sophy

There are more than 2 genders. At least five I think.

How can someone choose their social role when it is a physical relationship with others? How is gender a social role if it can't be chosen, rather it is a physical relationship?

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e., the state of being male, female, or an intersex variation), sex-based social structures (i.e., gender roles), or gender identity. People who do not identify as men or women or with masculine or feminine gender pronouns are often grouped under the umbrella terms non-binary or genderqueer.

Wikipedia

As I said the word 'Gender' has multiple senses.

As I said the word 'Gender' has multiple senses. — Cavacava

I was responding to this line of yours:

We have no choice of biological state but we can choose social roles. — Cavacava

None of your multiple senses of "gender" can be chosen.

The only sense of gender that can't be chosen is the one you are born with.

The only sense of gender that can't be chosen is the one you are born with. — Cavacava

So why do you choose your gender to be whatever it is?

So, transgenders have a choice in what they are, or the way they interpret what they are? It seems to me that society determines how they interpret what they are. Are they mentally ill, or really a woman in a man's body (whatever that means)?. Do we seek medical help for them or reinforce their belief in being a woman in a man's body (whatever that means)?

More like a compulsion, I think.

If gender can be chosen through a conscious decision, why do transgender people choose to be the gender they are, even though that leads to them being discriminated (among other cons)?

Okay, then there is no choice. Thank you.

:down:

"Like" is metaphorical...

Then you need to learn how to use metaphors. Why would you use a term that implies that you don't have choice as a metaphor for the sense that you do?

No you need to learn how to read...tks