• uncool
    16


    Daniel Dennet says humans will change the way how we believe.

    Is evidence caring about belief? If so, can evidence exist without belief?
  • Rich
    2.5k
    Did Dennett say "We can decide" at 4:30?

    Brushing Dennett's pretzel philosophy aside.

    We all have beliefs, some we care about more than othekrs, and we look forward recurring patterns of these beliefs (possibly shared with others) that we might call evidence or some confirmation. But beliefs change as does evidence as we evolve.
  • uncool
    16
    We all have beliefs, some we care about more than others, and we look forward recurring patterns of these beliefs (possibly shared with others) that we might call evidence or some confirmation. But beliefs change as does evidence as we evolve.Rich

    I know evidence changes.
    But does evidence need beliefs?
  • Rich
    2.5k
    Without a belief it is just stuff we are observing which ultimately may form a pattern to create a belief.
  • uncool
    16
    Without a belief it is just stuff we are observing which ultimately may form a pattern to create a belief.Rich

    I don't doubt that patterns can form beliefs, but does evidence actually require belief?

    I can think up some scenarios where evidence doesn't require belief.
  • T Clark
    1.6k
    But does evidence need beliefs?uncool

    There are observations. They don't become evidence until they are used to establish the truth or falsehood of a fact or proposition.
  • Cavacava
    2k
    Yes, like that.

    The status of evidence as such must be concluded, otherwise it is not evidence, and if conclusions are required then knowledge is required and if knowledge is required then belief is required.
  • Noble Dust
    2k
    Can evidence care? What?
  • charleton
    630
    Daniel Dennet says humans will change the way how we believe.

    Is evidence caring about belief? If so, can evidence exist without belief?
    uncool

    The first sentence is both ungrammatical and a misquote.
    Sentence two is either incoherent or intentionally backwards. And so no. 3 cannot follow.
  • uncool
    16
    The first sentence is both ungrammatical and a misquote.
    Sentence two is either incoherent or intentionally backwards. And so no. 3 cannot follow.
    charleton

    I think he says it in a book called "Caught in the Pulpit: Leaving Belief Behind".
  • uncool
    16
    Can evidence care? What?Noble Dust

    As in, can evidence exist without belief?
  • uncool
    16
    The status of evidence as such must be concluded, otherwise it is not evidence, and if conclusions are required then knowledge is required and if knowledge is required then belief is required.Cavacava

    I don't think so, because I know many Christians who believe world was made in 6 days, and those beliefs disagree with science evidence. We can maybe then say scientific evidence doesn't care about beliefs?
  • Cavacava
    2k

    I don't think so, because I know many Christians who believe world was made in 6 days, and those beliefs disagree with science evidence. We can maybe then say scientific evidence doesn't care about beliefs?

    Yes people can believe what ever they want to believe, but that does not make those beliefs knowledge. Knowledge as true belief implies the ability to demonstrate with evidence that a belief is rationally coherent, even if it can't be proven absolutely true.
  • uncool
    16
    Yes people can believe what ever they want to believe, but that does not make those beliefs knowledge. Knowledge as true belief implies the ability to demonstrate with evidence that a belief is rationally coherent, even if it can't be proven absolutely true.Cavacava

    Exactly. This makes me think beliefs are not necessary, because we can ignore beliefs that don't deal with evidence, and also, we can ignore beliefs that deal with evidence.

    We could ignore evidenced based beliefs, because those are redundant, as the evidence doesn't care whether or not people believe in it.
  • Cavacava
    2k


    Exactly. This makes me think beliefs are not necessary, because we can ignore beliefs that don't deal with evidence, and also, we can ignore beliefs that deal with evidence.

    I think we can ignore beliefs that don't have evidence, any such beliefs are about faith and not about knowledge. Beliefs that are evidenced by facts or our abstraction of the facts, are essential to our survival and progress.

    We could ignore evidenced based beliefs, because those are redundant, as the evidence doesn't care whether or not people believe in it.

    You speak of evidence as if it were a simple thing, yet I think that evidence is the result of beliefs, and that beliefs acts as differentia or values separating the notion of a simple thing or state of affairs from their entailing something else beyond their simple existence as such.
  • charleton
    630
    Is evidence caring about belief?uncool

    I don't think he would say this.
  • uncool
    16
    You speak of evidence as if it were a simple thing, yet I think that evidence is the result of beliefsCavacava

    Science is something that enables us to progress, by mostly looking on evidence, with out the need to look on all possible evidence.

    I would say based on data, belief mostly encourages people to ignore evidence. Could science really thrive based on something that enables people to mostly ignore evidence?
  • uncool
    16
    Beliefs that are evidenced by facts or our abstraction of the facts, are essential to our survival and progress.Cavacava

    I don't think so. I can't get over the fact that evidence can be valid, without being dependent on whether or not people chose to believe in that evidence.
  • Cavacava
    2k
    I don't think so. I can't get over the fact that evidence can be valid, without being dependent on whether or not people chose to believe in that evidence.

    a=b is meaningless if no one believes a=b.
  • uncool
    16
    a=b is meaningless if no one believes a=b.Cavacava

    For one thing, equations don't work because somebody choses to believe in them; so whether or not a scientist may chose to believe in some equations, does not impact whether or not those equations are valid.

    If equations cared about scientists believing in them, then many scientists would be able to believe in their equations (no matter how wrong those equations were in reality), and equations would then work after sufficient belief was placed upon them. But we know life doesn't work that way; instead we simply follow the evidence until some workable thing gets implemented eventually. This is what has enabled us to make progress, and no matter how much belief or passion we may want to put in our work, it fails unless evidence is followed.
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