• jorndoe
    614
    Out of body and near death experiences share a category with hallucinations and dreams.

    Since the supposed "out of body floating self" can interact with the body, it can presumably interact with whatever else (which would be verifiable), yet that apparently does not happen. Spurious.

    Somehow "seeing" without eyes, "hearing" without eardrums, "remembering" without a head, "fits" in exactly one body (the one required to report the experience), ...? When and how is this supposed "disembodied astral soul" installed in the body anyway? Suspect.

    ig6tlebzbhddm46o.jpg

    Can this "incorporeal observer" then only be affected by the world (i.e. be an effect in part), but not affect the world (i.e. be a cause in part)? (Except, not affected by gravity though, maybe, or something.) For that matter, wouldn't any observed light be subject to transformation by being "seen" (which hence would be detectable)? Dubious.

    Alien abduction stories at least report seeing with their eyes, and those are generally thought questionable already.

    We tend to understand confabulation (memory disturbances), dream side-effects, phantom pain, alien hand syndrome, other abnormal involuntary behavior and synesthesia, for example, a bit more down to Earth. Voluntary daydreams of flying in orbit around Earth as an "astral Superman" are not really disembodied experiences as such, but fairly easy to the imagination, analogous to involuntary out of body and near death experiences.

    Whatever these experiences may be, the purported understanding remains unsatisfactory. But movies like Ghost sure perpetuates the notion.
    1. Are out of body and near death experiences are what they're purported to be? (19 votes)
        Yes
        16%
        No, more down to Earth
        74%
        The requisite 3rd option for semantic quibbles and such :)
        11%
  • bahman
    530
    I had several paranormal experiences.
  • JustSomeGuy
    307

    I would be very interested in hearing about them.
  • bahman
    530
    I have had visions of other beings, such as Devils, Angels, and deceased people. They can read my mind and have control over my thoughts and feelings. They can even move my body. I have had tremendous number of sleep paralysis. It is a kind of state that you are aware of yourself and can do limited things when it is allowed. They touch me, tease me, torture me, and having sex with me during this state or in some occasion when I am awake. They can enter my dreams and do all sort of things. Once I even died at a night and find myself alive the next morning, probably resurrected. Etc.

    I am a physicist and I have thought about what I have experienced a lot. I can say that paranormal world exists.
  • JupiterJess
    121
    . Consciousness is often described as something like a projection by the brain anyway so I don't think it differs from normal waking experience whatever it is.
  • Noble Dust
    3.2k


    I have sleep paralysis as well. What are your thoughts on it?
  • Bitter Crank
    6.7k
    I'm having an out of body near death experience right now. Oops, got too close. Bye...
  • Janus
    5.9k


    Quick, quick, if you can read this remove the plastic bag from your head. And don't forget to put the ol' fella back! >:)
  • bahman
    530

    I think we are embedded in a physical state which we can be approached with others. I can stay in this state as long as I want if I am allowed. I am a little lazy on practicing but a couple of time I managed to reach into that physical state. What do you think?

    I am however puzzled with the fact that what I sometimes see in my vision cannot be seen by others. The beings in my vision behave like normal people and seems to have thoughts and feelings. I cannot say that my vision is construct of my brain activity when I am awake. How couldn't they be true when they seem very real like others?
  • Bitter Crank
    6.7k
    Plastic bag -- come on! I'm more technically sophisticated than that!
  • jorndoe
    614
    Suppose (for the sake of argument heh) that we're imperfect perception/conception organisms.
    What might we then expect...?

    Ayer had an epic experience:
    A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (Peter Sjöstedt-H – philosopher; Sep 2017)
  • jorndoe
    614
    I have had visions of other beings, such as Devils, Angels, and deceased people.bahman

    Might be more interesting if you had visions (plural) of someone/something entirely unknown to you, that you could then later verify/falsify independently. Make a statistic out of it.

    I am however puzzled with the fact that what I sometimes see in my vision cannot be seen by others. The beings in my vision behave like normal people and seems to have thoughts and feelings. I cannot say that my vision is construct of my brain activity when I am awake. How couldn't they be true when they seem very real like others?bahman

    If you slapped me in a dream, would you then expect me to have a bruise the next day in real life...? They're different kinds of experiences (from memory, I think it was Searle that had some good points on this stuff).

    Out of body and near death experiences share a category with hallucinations and dreams. — opening post
  • bahman
    530
    Might be more interesting if you had visions (plural) of someone/something entirely unknown to you, that you could then later verify/falsify independently. Make a statistic out of it.jorndoe

    Yes, they were individual I have never seen before.

    If you slapped me in a dream, would you then expect me to have a bruise the next day in real life...? They're different kinds of experiences (from memory, I think it was Searle that had some good points on this stuff).jorndoe

    I don't understand this: "Out of body and near death experiences share a category with hallucinations and dreams." Could you please elaborate?
  • CasKev
    407
    I'm surprised to see that so many otherwise seemingly fairly intelligent people believe in NDEs and OOBEs... ;) I mean, anything's possible, but you would think by now we would have developed some method of proving them indisputably if they did in fact exist. I'm with @jorndoe... Spurious, suspect, and dubious!
  • CasKev
    407
    and having sex with me during this state or in some occasion when I am awakebahman

    Did you happen to capture any 'demon semen'? Sorry, couldn't resist!
  • bahman
    530
    Did you happen to capture any 'demon semen'? Sorry, couldn't resist!CasKev

    I am male but I captured some demons' semen outside my body. It happen to me twice. The first was performed by Satan and the second one by a Friend/Brother, I don't have any name for Him. :)
  • CasKev
    407
    I am male but I captured some demons' semen outside my body. It happen to me twice. The first was performed by Satan and the second one by a Friend/Brother, I don't have any name for Him.bahman

    Sounds frightening. Sorry you had to experience that. :(
  • bahman
    530
    Sounds frightening. Sorry you had to experience that. :(CasKev

    They weren't frightening. They were ok to me.
  • anonymous66
    626
    Are you familiar with the studies done by James Whinnery? He reported cases of people having NDE's when they were subjected to high G forces.

    http://www.magarchive.tcu.edu/articles/2008-01-AN2.asp

    http://www.radiolab.org/story/91527-out-of-body-roger/
  • JustSomeGuy
    307
    I'm surprised to see that so many otherwise seemingly fairly intelligent people believe in NDEs and OOBEsCasKev

    I was surprised, as well, but I try to remind myself that we are all biased by our own experiences. When people have experienced something like this, it is much more likely that they will believe it was legitimate than it would be for someone who hasn't experienced it.

    It's interesting when you think about it. We are told things by other people, and whether or not we believe these things is based on many factors (what we know about the person saying it, how many other people have said it, how many other people believe what the person says, etc.), but most likely the biggest factor is our own experience of the world. If something lines up well with what you yourself have experienced, you are much more likely to believe it than if it doesn't. Paranormal phenomena don't line up with my own experience because I have never experienced anything that is seemingly paranormal, and that makes me just as biased as the people who have experienced it. We are all slaves to our own perspective.

    But of course, it's always good to remember--as you said--anything is possible.
  • Victoria Nova
    21
    Since I heard of people seeing white dot, a tunnel during clinical death, one time when I lost conscioussness and was coming out of it, after 15 min., I've seen white misshapen stain and light that slowly grew in size, and on opening my eyes realised that the light was coming from between my eyelashes, when they were opening very slowly, light rays being misshapen by presence of teh forets of eyelashes. Anyone can close their eyes, say, ni front of a source of light, be it window or a lamp, and open them very slowly to see the same result. There is no mystery behind it. It's just when coming out of unconscius state brain reads everything also slowly, slugishly, unable to say straight away what is really going on. Perhaps memory then also stores this information as unexplained and everything unexplained people quickly turn into mistery or evidence of out-of-body- experience.
  • bert1
    159
    This is a floppy OP with no interesting philosophical question. It may as well be "Hey guys, some dumb people believe in spooky stuff! Are you dumb too?"
  • 0 thru 9
    694
    I had several paranormal experiences.bahman
    Thanks for sharing your interesting experiences. I would not have guessed people experienced such things. Unless they were ... umm.. err... ya know, under psychological stress or something, lol. I have had only one paranormal experience. Very unsettling to say the least. It’s difficult to describe. It started shortly before I was born, I think. And as far as I know it is still going on. Kind of a chronic paranormal experience. :starstruck:

    (I do realize that this is a zombie thread :death: from months ago, and the poster is forum-deceased. But it’s appropriate for this thread, plus it’s almost Halloween.)
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