• Ahmed
    2
    This question has been on my mind for a while, so I would be absolutely grateful for any feedback and discussion. The argument itself won't be very formal.

    I am inclined to think that faith has little or no epistemic value.

    Let me define faith first. I'm using faith as it pertains to organized religion, especially the Abrahamic tradition: trust or confidence in religious authority. This religious authority would be the clergy and scripture. That being said, I think it would be fair to say that although people believe in the existence of a God with very particular traits (answers prayers, smites evildoers, etc.), they do so because they trust and obey the authority of the religious institution. (Are these fair assumptions to make?)

    For example, say I walk in to a church and ask a priest about truth (truth, as it pertains to a deity). The priest replies that God is three distinct persons within one entity. That is all there is to it: it is considered a divine mystery, and cannot be questioned further as it derives its authority from scripture.

    That being said, I think faith has little epistemic value because it chiefly derives legitimacy from authority. Authority on its own is not a sufficient justification for knowledge.

    For example, say my math teacher shows us some equations on the board, and asks us to solve some practice problems using those equations. Even though I 'know of' the equation and utilize it to solve problems, do I really possess knowledge if I am simply plugging in numbers? I am inclined to think no: perhaps there is a distinction between "knowing of" a subject and "being familiar with" a subject. The latter being closer to whatever true knowledge may be. In other words, for me to possess mathematical knowledge, I must first understand why the equation works in the first place.

    That being said, an institution is only given authority if it is given authority. Consequently, I would conclude that the Catholic Church, for example, only has legitimate views on God because people look to it for authority concerning those matters. I would like to add that religious truth is considered eternal and immutable: its truth value does not diminish with the passage of time or circumstance.

    Conversely, I'd like to discuss science. In comparison to religious truths, scientific truth is rather transient: when a theory no longer best explains existing data, it is eventually replaced. In spite of this, the institution of science enjoys a great deal of legitimacy. Why might that be? Scientific inquiry relies on its method: science derives legitimacy from the fact that it has a formal procedure that tries to document and replicate natural phenomena based on available evidence. After all, it would be silly to say: "on the authority of scientists, such a phenomenon is true."

    Anecdotally, with regards to climate change, I've noticed that news pundits talk about "scientific consensus" as a reason the government should take action. That isn't a sufficient reason we should pursue more sustainable policies; instead they should say: "observable data has shown that human industrial activity is strongly correlated with growing carbon emissions in the atmosphere. There is an immense positive correlation between the observed affects of climate change and the amount of carbon in the atmosphere that we would be foolish to ignore it."

    Professing a belief in 'x' merely on the account of religious authority cannot be considered knowledge. In other words, faith, chiefly relying on the legitimacy of religious authority, cannot be considered knowledge.

    I would be grateful if anyone could help me expand upon or critique this argument. Otherwise, please excuse my ignorance.
  • The French Guy
    2
    Hello there.

    To give my opinion on that question, I have to discuss axioms first.

    "An axiom or postulate is a statement that is taken to be true, to serve as a premise or starting point for further reasoning and arguments. " (Wikipedia)

    All that you call knowledge is either an axiom or a result of a reasoning based on one or more axioms. The problem is that you cannot be sure whether an axiom is true or not (or at least it is the case for the majority of them, even in the case of mathematics). For instance, an axiom that I use commonly is to think that my senses give me a quite correct insight of the outside world- which is not sure, because my senses could be influenced by a drug inside my body, or what I call the outside world could be in fact an environment generated by a computer program. So one must be very careful before adding a new axiom in the set of the ones he is already using. Otherwise it can lead him to have contradictions, meaning that given some of his axioms A is true but with another ones A is false, which is the worst in reasoning and knowledge.

    Basically, religions make us adding a whole bunch of axioms, with little reason because none of them are really useful in our daily life nor they are bluntly evident-which are basically the only two good reasons to accept new axioms. Or at least it is what I consider to be true, but other ones might object that religion help them to have an happier life.

    I don't know if I have answer your question, but here is what I have to say on the subject.
  • Ahmed
    2

    Thanks for responding.

    So, one way or another, religious axioms are just unverifiable?
  • Nut1983
    2
    Belief in a deity, helps a person to live with hope, thereby to have the meaning of life, for which to live!
    Science is a person's hobbies in this world! Science helps a person improve his way of life in the big world (the universe). A person can not live without faith, depression comes, there is no interest in life, then a person goes away (dies). You can live without science, see how poor people live! Sly people they are far from science but live richly! Science allows you to make life more comfortable! A person lives once. How to live this life everyone decides for himself! And the green men (people - the gods) could live for more than a thousand years, if the climate allows) and on earth these creatures, if they are lucky, they live 500 years, they rejoice)))
  • The French Guy
    2
    No axiom is verifiable. That are their definition: a statement considered to be true, but without any certainty about this truth. They exist because in order to find data and to start reasoning they are indispensable.

    That's why some philosophy schools, known as the skeptics, considered that it is impossible to know things for sure. The most important one is Pyrrhonism:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhonism

    Nut1983: personally, I have lived my life happily enough without religion... Furthermore some religions don't believe in God (e.g Buddhism)
  • Nut1983
    2
    God is a character, a legend, for people. A person should have faith, hobbies, the meaning of life (to create a family, to build a house, to plant a tree ...) If people destroy human values, people will start to lose their lives! Buddhism has its own meaning, to know oneself from within. In general, the meaning of earthly values ​​and goals remains the same, to give people hope and strength in their spiritual life.
    Green men (people gods), show the truth to people by different methods, get the facts and publicize (Charles Bolden stated about UFOs, then he was taken away and laughed). There is another way, you can provoke rulers to rash acts and sow enmity, thus it will be more difficult to negotiate and manage the rulers of countries. There will be chaos, a big riot. Green men themselves will show their true face.
  • unenlightened
    8.7k
    I am inclined to think that faith has little or no epistemic value.Ahmed

    Yes, but it might have value otherwise.

    If I say I believe in truth, justice and love, It is not that I believe that these things prevail as a matter of fact, but rather that I am committed to promote them as far as my weak will prevails over my fear or whatever. So faith is not necessarily a knowledge claim at all, but a profession of allegiance, a commitment, or an avocation, even an ardent desire. Keep the faith! Be a faithful friend! These are not to do with knowing.
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