• believenothing
    54
    what is nothing? - short video comparing nothingness scientifically

    Perhaps nothing is part of what drives us to explore and/or learn? I imagine there is plenty of space between my ears.. :D
    I think this is a fantastic question.

    something from nothing - what zero really is and where it came from (in brief)
    zero is not really a number 'nothing is not really a problem'

    integers can be used for counting but zero apparently has more versatility or purpose than other integers
  • believenothing
    54


    Things are. Nothing is not. "what is nothing" is a meaningless question like what is the colour of F-sharp, Or what does blue sound like.
    Things have properties. Nothing has no properties, as having is a property of existing. Things exist; nothing does not exist and has no properties. Not having a property is not a property.
    charleton

    A good observation, and a strong argument, but does it mean we have nothing to talk about?

    I say 'nothing is not' does not mean that 'nothing' can't be described. I mean if you think about it 'nothing is not' is a good example of how to describe nothing. I believe something that is not can change into something else either by way of 'unravelling' or by way of acquiring a different view point or a different means of perception. "What is nothing?" is asking for a description of something that you yourself have found a good way to describe, so even if the question is meaningless it can still be answered in a variety of ways which I would say means it is not mindless gibberish - it is a good question.

    "what is nothing?" - 'nothing' is difficult to replicate and seems to be some sort of origin
  • believenothing
    54
    A magician might say "there is nothing up my sleeves..".

    From now on, 'nothing' will be my suspension of disbelief :D
  • Myttenar
    61

    "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
  • believenothing
    54
    "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"Myttenar
    (I agree in some cases) But..

    In response to what exactly?

    If you are not present to make a point, that is evidence enough that you are not taking part in the conversation or simply missing the point..?

    You might just as well try explicating that nothing is nothing and be content with that as a clear definition.

    I'm not trying to say 'the absence of evidence is evidence of absence' it sounds like you've misunderstood me if you think you are disagreeing..? It sounds preposterous. Just because you can't find something doesn't necessarily mean that it must be somewhere else, but at the same time you can't conclude that something doesn't exist simply because it has never been discovered. You sound clever, I hope you have more to contribute..?
  • Myttenar
    61

    Forgive me for assuming the point was made, I should have expanded.

    I believe an error is made when the idea of 0 is being regarded as a quantifiable object instead of a frame of reference.
  • believenothing
    54
    "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"Myttenar

    And I'm just going to point out here that nothing is, in fact not everywhere.Myttenar

    OK if you are into semantics, grammar, logic or the like.. how about this? You say nothing is not everywhere right? Doesn't that mean you are implying that at least in some places there is an absence of nothing? I have struggled with the concept of nothing for a while, but the concept of the absence of nothing is another story - at face value it seems to contradict itself. In a system where nothing exists the absence of nothing is impossible when absence itself is a version of nothing. Perhaps the logic is somehow flawed when trying to compare nothing with nothing? Someone please clarify..?

    I guess maybe it can be proven that nothing simply doesn't exist, but I've never seen any proof. Strictly speaking I guess 'nothing' doesn't exist - there is always something. But the word still has meaning and that is what I thought we were supposed to be trying to establish.
  • Myttenar
    61

    "Doesn't that mean you are implying that at least in some places there is an absence of nothing?"

    Well yes obviously, every place where something exists that is not nothing..


    "I believe an error is made when the idea of 0 is being regarded as a quantifiable object instead of a frame of reference." - Myttenar
  • believenothing
    54
    ↪believenothing

    "Doesn't that mean you are implying that at least in some places there is an absence of nothing?"

    Well yes obviously, every place where something exists that is not nothing..
    Myttenar

    Thanks

    "I believe an error is made when the idea of 0 is being regarded as a quantifiable object instead of a frame of reference."Myttenar

    That would be a misguided definition of nothing.. I mean I agree. How about this then..? How can two nothings be compared? If they have different locations as is implied by an absence being possible then how could they be identical and how could a 'nothing' have a location anyway since it has no properties? Or are you suggesting that there is something everywhere?
  • believenothing
    54
    Nothing must be everywhere and universal just like that 'ether' idea because under scrutiny it is always present.

    I currently believe that 'nothing' is a self perpetuating origin but I would like to learn something that debunks this.. hey Myttenar..? You still breathing? ;)
  • Maw
    64
    "Nothing" is not a thing. A privation is not a substantive.
  • believenothing
    54
    "Nothing" is not a thing. A privation is not a substantive.Maw

    Thanks Maw, we might be headed somewhere, your clarity and your succinct statements help me see I've been rambling but the question remains "If Nothing is not a thing then what is it?" I still think nothing is a self perpetuating origin, just 'not in so many words' if you will allow me some poetic license? Maybe things will get a bit esoteric? Maybe there is not only always something but also always something else? I'm curious now Maw, would you say 'nothing' is unknowable?

    Sometimes I get thrown by ambiguity but sometimes I contradict myself frequently or try to 'fix it when it ain't broke'. I mean I'm not usually content with conclusions as you might have gathered and often see contestation where there is none. As far as substantives go, I'm sure there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
  • charleton
    260
    A good observation, and a strong argument, but does it mean we have nothing to talk about?

    I say 'nothing is not' does not mean that 'nothing' can't be described. I mean if you think about it 'nothing is not' is a good example of how to describe nothing.
    believenothing

    Actually that is exactly what it means.
    Nothing has no properties and can be only be described as such. You can even say "nothing is..." or "nothing has..." Because "nothing" cannot have any properties.
    I'm not sure "nothing is not" is a description of a thing, and no thing can follow on from that comprehensive description.
  • believenothing
    54
    It seems I've misconceived it all, it's back to the drawing board for me..

    When there is nothing to be said it is best to say nothing.
  • charleton
    260

    "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
    Wittgenstein
  • believenothing
    54
    "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
    Wittgenstein
    charleton

    Lost pearls.
  • believenothing
    54
    What if everything is meaningless? What if there is nothing? Is there a hidden purpose? "What is nothing?" Is not a meaningless question! How do you really interpret it?

    By definition in my eyes nothing is what is missing but it is everywhere and it's all a bit chaotic. I'm seeking clarity.
  • believenothing
    54
    I'm not sure "nothing is not" is a description of a thing, and no thing can follow on from that comprehensive description.charleton

    Being vague and waiting for an answer, who would have thought you could have a conversation about nothing? Seems absurd. Even if "What is nothing?" was meaningless it could still serve as an ice breaker.. Perhaps it is a good idea to yield to nothing?
  • Myttenar
    61
    How can two nothings be compared?believenothing

    Again, as a frame of reference nothing needs no comparison, it is universal. Comparison arises between "things".

    believenothing
    28
    Nothing must be everywhere and universal.
    believenothing

    I agree to this as part of my argumeny though the rest of this sentence made no sense to me.

    hey Myttenar..? You still breathing? ;)believenothing

    Affirmative. Awake is another story :)
  • Vajk
    85
    Before I was born, I've heard a voice: "Nem hihetsz semmiben!" transleted to English it could mean: You
    shall not belive Nothing! and/or You shall not belive Anything!
    Then I started to laugh, and I was born, but thats not all.
    I also see these points everywhere (actually I can not not to see them, even when my eyes are closed.)
    Now, You see this pointilist picture, with the dots on it. To me on this world, everything looks the same even empty space..

    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/458663543285397945/
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