• Benkei
    643
    But then feminists say that a men's rights movement is not needed; men's rights activism is misogynistic; "There is no misandry"; etc.WISDOMfromPO-MO

    Barring anecdotal circumstances to the contrary, a social movement for men's rights would indeed be Bullshit considering the amount of benefits already bestowed on men, at least in typical Western societies. It seems to me you're confusing the existence of some misandrists with misandry being a social problem. It really isn't and to suggest otherwise as a man is weak (see what I did there).
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    454
    If this were the case, one would expect to find women dominating in matters pertaining to morality, in the judiciary and the priesthood, for examples. But they don't. Quite the reverse, because the dominant stereotype is the exact opposite - that women are morally weaker, and this is part of the justification for male dominance in every other sphere. If the dominant stereotype was that men are morally inferior, we would not put them in charge of everything.unenlightened

    A straw man.

    The message seems clear to me every day: men are horrible, rotten beings; men are a necessary evil at best; etc.
  • unenlightened
    1.5k
    Yeah, there are people like that. They don't run the country, though, they don't represent a consensus of feminism even, and they are therefore straw women. If you hang out with such people and hear that every day, you need to change your life some, maybe become a refugee.
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    454
    WISDOMfromPO-MO Yeah, there are people like that...unenlightened

    I did not say anything about "people".

    I talked about the message that boys and men get every day in the culture that I am a part of.

    They don't run the country, though, they don't represent a consensus of feminism even,...unenlightened

    "They" are irrelevant.

    And I did not say anything about feminism, so that is a red herring or some other fallacy.

    and they are therefore straw women...unenlightened

    What argument is being turned into a straw man?

    If you hang out with such people and hear that every day, you need to change your life some, maybe become a refugee.unenlightened

    One of the stupidest ad hominems I have ever seen.
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    454
    My father was taught to be 'manly' and that masculine attributes were physical in nature as well as being aggressive and showing dominance. He would boast about stories on how he made people disabled and would often beat my mother up - she was a tiny woman mind you - because in his pathetic culture violence against women had become normalised. He was a mindless follower of the constructions of masculinity and did the every bidding of his social environment that he cared for more than his own family and children, his false facade showcasing someone different to what we experienced when he came home.

    I care about the construction of masculinity because of the impact it has on me and my mother (who became lost because she could not escape) and siblings, all of whom bullied and harassed me as I was the youngest in the family to vent their frustrations. I have never had sex neither even kissed a man because I was for a very long time scared of men and of being hurt. While I am lucky that I was never raped or severely hurt in some physical way, psychological and in particular emotional trauma was significant because of the constant threat of violence and it took a lot to recover from the realisation that I was long hiding from the pain pretending I was protecting myself since I thought men were the enemy. I know now that by exposing my vulnerability and being myself, I am much stronger than my father.
    TimeLine

    I am sorry that you experienced all of that.

    I am glad that you have emerged from it as a stronger person.
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    454
    What you appear to be confused about is that you seem to be blaming feminism for this failure, but on the contrary, it is the construction of masculinity that has prevented the struggle of men to be voiced.

    If anything, you should perhaps be praising feminism for working hard to fight these social constructions and stereotypes for ultimately shedding light on the issues that men face.
    TimeLine

    I don't recall ever in my life blaming feminism for anything.

    Some people blame feminism for the failure of the family institution, the marriage institution, etc. in America. Some people blame feminism for the mistreatment of boys. And a lot of things around and in between. I even saw one writer blaming women's suffrage for the unsustainable expansion of government (women expect government assistance, or something like that). But I don't recall my own self ever blaming feminism for anything.

    What I have said here is that I believe that women's liberation has done nothing to address or correct how men suffer as men.

    Apparently feminism categorically denies that men suffer as men, I now must conclude (see the quote that inspired this thread).
  • Bitter Crank
    3.7k
    Of course, Men's Liberation isn't very concerned about women's suffering either.
  • TimeLine
    775
    What I have said here is that I believe that women's liberation has done nothing to address or correct how men suffer as men.

    Apparently feminism categorically denies that men suffer as men, I now must conclude (see the quote that inspired this thread).
    WISDOMfromPO-MO

    Well, I disagree. Studies at tertiary institutions on men and masculinities is interdisciplinary in gender studies and sociology. The idea is that if the social construction of masculinity is causally to blame for the existence of misogyny, a focus on how masculinity effects men in turn transforms the very reality that feminists seeks to stop. It should not just be one voice trying to defend itself but men and women working together.

    https://cup.columbia.edu/book/masculinity-studies-and-feminist-theory/9780231122795
1234Next
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.