• Wallows
    9.6k
    I am at a somewhat existential cross roads in my life. I have narrowed down what I would marginally well be doing at college, if and when I decide to make a return. Namely, psychology would be a field of study where I would achieve a sense of flourishment. However, there are some ideological roadblocks that I wanted to bring up. The crux of the issue is that I do not feel that there is any reason to conform to the notion that there is something fundamentally wrong with a patient and that he or she should not continue living with whatever condition they are 'afflicted' with. It seems unethical to make that conclusion on any grounds. There are some cases where intervention is required, such as in suicide prevention; but, apart from that I have a fuck-all attitude towards psychiatry and psychology. The problem is not the patient in the majority of cases (excluding destructive addictive behaviors) but rather the failure of society in accommodating for people with such 'disorders'. I don't know if I have brought out the stigma sufficiently enough. Are you receiving me?

    This situation as presented is the subversion of psychology to the methods and means of addressing issues as a matter of some receptor blockade or deficiency in some neurotransmitter level, as seen in Psychiatry. The placebo effect is a testament to utter failure of psychiatry at addressing 'disorders' or rather more aptly, 'conditions'. I see no reason to engage in treatment of depression, due to the fact that it may be a natural response of the body to repressed anger or what-have-you-not. Let the emotion come about. I believe in personal responsibility; but, more often than not the condition has nothing to do with the patient, per se.

    I am somewhat averse to what I will encounter in my studies of 'maladaptive beliefs', 'personality disorders', or some failure in child rearing by the parent or insubordinance of the patient.

    From this perspective, I feel as though I will cynically approach my studies and become disheartened in my studies, as with everything else I take on doing. What are your thoughts?
  • Wallows
    9.6k
    I would like to highlight that these feelings towards the field of psychiatry, and subsequently psychology have stemmed from the outright stigma I have felt from being depressed in the past, to the point of going through the whole range of discomforting emotions that, that diagnosis entails. I have come to terms with my 'disorder' and hope to find some place in society for people with depression, anxiety, and what-not.
  • Wallows
    9.6k
    Just talking with myself online; but, I feel as if this were an issue in a deep-seated sense of cynicism and lack of belief in true change or lack of compassion. What is it?

    Truth is a pathless land, as Krishnamurti would say.
  • Thanatos Sand
    843
    There are some cases where intervention is required, such as in suicide prevention; but, apart from that I have a fuck-all attitude towards psychiatry and psychology. The problem is not the patient in the majority of cases (excluding destructive addictive behaviors) but rather the failure of society in accommodating for people with such 'disorders'.

    The "problem" (probably not the best word here) is very much the patient when they are suffering the neuro-physiological disorders of schizophrenia, clinical depression, or bi-polar disorder, where chemical imbalances need pharmacological aid as much as diabetes or any chronic biochemical disorder. Accepting those suffering and not attaching a stigma to the afflicted is very important, but it is not enough.
  • Thanatos Sand
    843
    The placebo effect is a testament to utter failure of psychiatry at addressing 'disorders' or rather more aptly, 'conditions'. I see no reason to engage in treatment of depression, due to the fact that it may be a natural response of the body to repressed anger or what-have-you-not.

    This just goes against established medical study and practice, as well as psychiatric and psycho-pharmacological study. Depression can, and usually does, also have external life contributors, but one cannot treat the physical condition with psychological therapy alone.
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    753





    David Smail covered all of this already.

    Start with his internet publication, "Power, Responsibility and Freedom".
  • Thanatos Sand
    843
    David Smail was a psychologist who was in no place making judgments over psychiatric/medical/biochemical matters.
  • Joseph
    19

    You do not have to be on medication forever to recover from disorders. For example, the standard treatment for anxiety disorder is to put the patient on medication for a year and they generally get better afterward. Studies show that depression can also be improved by diet for instance, which is one way that psychiatrists can help and inform patients. Sometimes just taking responsibility for something isn't enough and treatment can help. You may learn interesting things in psychology, and it isn't all about disorders. There is also the field of positive psychology for preventing disorders.
  • Thanatos Sand
    843
    You do not have to be on medication forever to recover from disorders. For example, the standard treatment for anxiety disorder is to put the patient on medication for a year and they generally get better afterward. Studies show that depression can also be improved by diet for instance, which is one way that psychiatrists can help and inform patients. Sometimes just taking responsibility for something isn't enough and treatment can help. You may learn interesting things in psychology, and it isn't all about disorders. There is also the field of positive psychology for preventing disorders.

    Some don't, many do, as many of the disorders--e.g. schizophrenia, clinical depression, and bi-polar disorder are usually chronic conditions demanding treatment but are resistant to curing. And while what you said about diet is absolutely correct, as is regular exercise, personal responsibility has nothing to do with it and you are erroneously applying a morality to the condition where one doesn't belong. And while one can work to prevent the advent of clinical depression, those suffering schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder cannot do so.
  • Bitter Crank
    8.4k
    From this perspective, I feel as though I will cynically approach my studies and become disheartened in my studies, as with everything else I take on doing. What are your thoughts?Question

    With that attitude, you may well approach your studies cynically and become disheartened.

    Namely, psychology would be a field of study where I would achieve a sense of flourishment. However, there are some ideological roadblocks that I wanted to bring up.Question

    It is unclear why you would go into clinical psychology at least, with your belief system about psychological disorders. Whatever you do in psychology, you won't be prescribing medications. So... you don't have to worry about that part.

    A bachelor degree in psychology may not qualify you for very interesting work. You would probably need a masters or PhD. How much advanced education you need depends on what kind of job you want.

    Some psychologists, for instance, consult. That is, they evaluate patients using standardized measurements of IQ, personality, and behavior. A psychologist may be called in to evaluate a client who has suffered trauma and may have impaired mental functioning. Or, it may be to assess prospective employees or applicants.

    Psychologists may provide talk therapy or CBT for clients. Clients may have been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, for instance. Your task might be to provide weekly support counseling, helping the client to cope with the problem. If this kind of work interests you, you might want to get a professional doctorate -- not quite a PhD, but solid training beyond a masters level.

    Successful therapists have come to terms with their own problems (even therapists have problems), understand the dynamics of how they, themselves, tick and can identify non-judgmentally with the client's situation. So, if someone came to you for help with depression, you would need to be able to work with their diagnosis in an accepted way, and in a way which the client can believe in. Telling a depressed client there is no such thing as depression might not be terribly helpful.

    There are various schools of psychology: Rogerian, Adlerian, Rational Emotive Therapy (Albert Ellis), Behavioral, psychoanalysis, and so on. You would need to find advanced training in a college or institute that taught that particular approach.
  • Joseph
    19
    Right about chronic conditions. There may be a component of morality to some depression and anxiety though. I overcame my chronic depression and anxiety by taking responsibility, and I have even received a tentative diagnosis of schizophrenia before and I have all but overcome all of my troubles without any real medication or treatment. I still experience anxiety but I have been overcoming it with hard work.

    Also, your charge was faulty; my post was mainly about the benefits of treatment, not personal responsibility, although your charge about my views happens to be correct.
  • Bitter Crank
    8.4k
    Studies show that depression can also be improved by diet for instance, which is one way that psychiatrists can help and inform patients.Joseph

    Science has shown that good food is better than bad food, but good food won't cure many psychological problems.

    Some of the problems people have are brain disorders rather than personality disorders. Such as the case with bi-polar disorder, or schizophrenia, as pointed out.
  • Joseph
    19
    Right, brain disorders are in another league.
  • unenlightened
    4.1k
    The crux of the issue is that I do not feel that there is any reason to conform to the notion that there is something fundamentally wrong with a patient and that he or she should not continue living with whatever condition they are 'afflicted' with. It seems unethical to make that conclusion on any grounds.Question

    There is no problem as long as you stick firmly to the old-fashioned medical notion of a complaint, rather than disease. Very often, it is a parent or teacher who has a complaint about a child. Little Johnny is hearing voices, or being disruptive, or frightening the horses. Sometimes Johnny has a complaint on his own behalf. As long as you treat the person with the complaint and leave alone the person without one, you do not have to stand in judgement about what is wrong on some spurious objective ground.
  • Thanatos Sand
    843
    There may be a component of morality to some depression and anxiety though. I overcame my chronic depression and anxiety by taking responsibility, and I have even received a tentative diagnosis of schizophrenia before and I have all but overcome all of my troubles without any real medication or treatment.


    I respect your anecdotal experience as both real and anecdotal, but i'm still not sure what you mean by morality or personal responsibility in these cases. If you have the time, I'd appreciate your clarification. Guilt can be a huge element in both chronic and temporary depression. But, like the guilt of a childhood sex abuse victim or of a parent who lost a child, it can be erroneous self-loathing indicative of a need for psychological therapy--as well as medical treatment, if necessary--instead of a lapse in morality or responsibility.
  • Rich
    3.2k
    I agree with you. The good news is that you can, after graduation, set up a very decent practice, assisting individuals who are seeking assistance, utilizing natural, noon-invasive modalities, that ultimately assist the individual in change rather them making them druggies.

    Granted, you still have to stomach those distasteful courses, and will probably have disagreements with your professors, (as I did), but grades are not meaningful in life and careers. What is meaningful is being true to yourself and those professional relationships that you enter into.

    Good luck with your decision!
  • Joseph
    19
    If depression is caused in part by guilt as you seem to say it is, then it isn't hard to think of a guilty thing one could do intentionally which would lead to depression. If one can become depressed as a result of guilty behavior, then much more so as a result of continued guilty behavior. Along that reasoning, it would be likely that taking responsibility to cease guilty behavior would mitigate depressive feelings. Of course, that isn't to say that erroneous feelings of guilt can be dealt with in the same way.
  • Thanatos Sand
    843


    Don't misrepresent me. I said guilt can be a part of the cause of depression. Also, I'm not sure if responsibility is the word as much as rationality.
  • Joseph
    19
    Then my mistake; 'can' is an ambiguous word.
  • Thanatos Sand
    843
    ↪Thanatos Sand Then my mistake; 'can' is an ambiguous word.

    I got you, it usually denotes the possible, but can denote the definite.
  • Wallows
    9.6k


    Let me know what were your difficulties? I seem to fixate on problems instead of solutions.
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