• Athena
    3.7k
    In another forum, someone posted a warning for the US about following the path that led to the Nazis and the horrors of the Second World War. I am wondering what Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle would say about what happened in Germany and what is happening in the US, and the importance of the separation of church and state. Is the separation of church and state even possible?



    Today, Franklin Graham is in charge of the multimillion-dollar organization his father made possible. Franklin Graham is a supporter of Trump, as Evangelicals supported Hitler. Christians ignored the suffering of Palestine and supported Israel almost from the beginning for religious reasons. This is a hard pill for non-Christians to swallow, and the way protesters wanting to defend the Palestinians, were treated, was religiously and politically motivated. There are serious ramifications that could lead to a 3rd world war. What would Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero say about this?

    I will repeat that the US is on the path of Fascism and the Evangelicals are a strong force for this, because that has me very worried.
  • jkop
    984
    Is the separation of church and state even possible?Athena

    Of course.

    For example, in Sweden state and church separated gradually in the 1800s and 1900s, and completely in 2000. Sweden is a secular state allowing freedom of religion. Most swedes would say that religious belief is a private matter.

    Unlike private belief, a church is a means to practice shared belief in large groups, which then becomes an opportunity for its leaders to control people. A state can therefore use a church to control entire populations.
  • BC
    14.2k
    Thank you for the post. White Christian Nationalism (WCN) may or may not be the harbinger of a future fascist United States, but if such a thing should happen, WCN will definitely be on the reviewing stand as the Männerbund stomps past singing

    … In our own towns, we're foreigners now
    Our names are spat and cursed
    The headline smack, of another attack
    Not the last, and not the worst
    Oh my fathers, they look down on me
    I wonder what they feel
    To see their noble sons driven down beneath a cowards heel

    Oh by God we'll have our home again...

    Church and state can be, and have been kept separate a good share of the time (IMHO). What can't be, and hasn't been, kept separate are religious and secular cultural drivers. Sometimes that is a very positive thing -- think of the mix of religious and secular impulses in the mid-20th century civil rights movement. There is a long history of the religious-secular mix, from the Puritans to the present.

    Add racism, nationalism, testosterone, resentment, etc., and you have a highly toxic brew.

    I agree that there are very conservative Christian denominations and congregations that are hotbeds of authoritarianism. A lot of them are charismatic / evangelical. But the term "evangelical" also applies to mainline Lutherans, (it's part of their official name), who are far from WCN.

    Prayer breakfasts at the White House are an abomination, for sure, and we should remember Jefferson's statement, "Indeed I tremble for my country when reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."
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