Alright Ucarr, we've been back and forth over this for days now and I'm consistently seeing that you're not interested in discussing anymore as you're starting to descend into insults like 'any ninth grader could...' This discussion is no longer a discussion, but a mission on your end. The quality of your posts has decreased. I cannot discuss with a person who doesn't care about anything but the outcome they want. I'm having my statements ignored and you insisting I'm saying one thing when I'm clearly not.

You are misunderstanding this discussion at this point. My job is not to convince you. I cannot convince anybody of anything they don't want. Your job is to convince me, and I am actually open to being wrong. I have been wrong many times, I'll be wrong many times in the future, and it may be that my argument IS wrong. But if it is wrong, that takes someone who's engaging honestly with good ideas that target the argument. None of what you are saying at this point is on track or giving me pause to consider, and I do not view you as an honestly engaging person at this point. As this is descending into hostility, points are continually repeated with no evolution, and I am constantly having to point out the same issues again and again, I see no further value in continuing this conversation.

Its been fun until now, so lets end it on a higher note. Another discussion another time Ucarr! :)

Time and space persist in independence, each holding its own properties? — ucarr

I can imagine non-spatial continuity, but i cannot see how space can exist without the property of continuity (or "absolute" time). If it were possible for space to exist without continuity, it wouldn't be a universe, or at least not our universe. — punos

...there is no room for movement within a 0-dimensional point — punos

I wonder if a 0-dimensional point, as in the singularity, hints at what space without time might be like. I think I’ve seen some debate whether time exists at the singularity. As for space at the singularity, since there is the Big Bang, can we assume there was space within the Big Bang? Explosion implies space, doesn’t it?

As for non-spatial temporal continuity, do you think absolute time motionless? Also, am I wrong in conjecturing that absolute zero temperature equals no motion and thus it's prohibited by the motion of absolute time, and thus absolute time does always move in space since it keeps material things always moving. Moreover, this shows us that motion of time is never uncoupled from mass-energy-motion-space, and thus mass-energy-motion-space-time is a never-broken quintet?

Might absolute time and relative time be two aspects of one temporal phenomenon?

It is the basis of continuity in space and is instantaneous in its action — punos

Loop quantum gravity pictures space broken down into discontinuous, granular pieces that combine to form space. Does this not suggest space and time inseparable?

Although the transmission of a state to the next point is instantaneous, from successive instances emerges a finite rate of propagation we call the "speed of light". — punos

I'm trying to remember if you told me time is a form of energy. If you did, does it have both a particle form and a waveform?

According to my model, the kind of energy that constitutes mass originates from the logic of continuity. — punos

Is continuity an attribute of time, or vice-versa, or do they form a co-equal pair? If time is the continuum of change, how can it be measured; wouldn't that be like trying to stop never-stopping motion? Are perceived phenomena really incorporeal samples of ineffable continuous change?

My question relates to another question of mine, Does causation have a temporal component? Let's imagine that Plant A releases Pollen A. Joe is not allergic to Pollen A, so Pollen A WRT Joe is not a cause of hay fever, an effect. Bill is allergic to Pollen A, so Pollen A is a cause of hay fever WRT Bill. Since Pollen A has two incompatible identities simultaneously, it seems to me causation is atemporal. — ucarr

What is "0th order time"?
0th order time is what one might call "absolute time," "primordial time," or "non-relativistic time." It is the basis of continuity in space and is instantaneous in its action. It is timeless in the sense that it never began and never will end. It represents the first degree of freedom within a single 0-dimensional point. This point is a single element of time and space, and is an abstract process or function self-contained in an elemental point space. Without this 0th order time, there can be no existence because it is the ground of existence itself. — punos

Can eternity move? If no beginning and no end means an irrational-number-like middle, then that suggests to me the stop-motion of eternity.

What is "1st order time"?
1st order time is an emergent kind of time characterized by intervals in quantized multi-point space. This interval nature emerges from the instantaneous transmission from one space point to another. Each space point contains within it the temporal characteristics of 0th order time. Although the transmission of a state to the next point is instantaneous, from successive instances emerges a finite rate of propagation we call the "speed of light". This is the maximum speed at which a state signal can travel along a path of multiple spatial state points. Quantized space has the effect of quantizing time in multi-point space, and thus quantizes energy. — punos

Might the instantaneous transmissions from state to state be evidence of paired states (similar to particle pairs)? Might cause and effect be evidence of paired states at Newtonian scale?

Might our "pure reason and logic together with what we already know" also be distorted by the insuperable relative time subject to the distortions of the speed of light, gravity, and our nervous systems? — ucarr

Sure, maybe, but can you give an example of such a case of distortion? — punos

There's a ASI cyborg on a space station outside of both earth's and mars' gravitational fields. She's collecting data on the orbit of mars in prep for a mars landing. She develops hyper-drive data processing only after being off-planet for a while. She sees that some anomalies are developing in the mars orbit due to an eruption on the planet's surface releasing tons of electromagnetic compounds. She's making a long term projection about the deviation from orbit not presently detectable by anyone but her and her hyper-drive data processing. She sends this data to monitoring humans on earth. She sees that they're not getting her info re: the orbital anomaly and knows the mars landing will be far afield from the chosen landing site. Since she's due to stay in orbit until after the mars landing, she knows there's nothing she can do about the impending botched navigation to the landing site.

Atomic clocks could reveal the time lag of the slower change of time on earth compared to the change of time in the space station. Since the orbital anomaly wasn't foreseen, there are no atomic clocks available. Sometime later, it was discovered that the cyborg, being limited to transmitting her hyper-drive data at hyper-speed, could only send her data stream within a time frame shorter than the time lag between the space station and the monitoring station on earth.

The earth monitors couldn't get the mars orbital adjustment data because the time interval, in micro-seconds, was too short start to finish to be received across the duration of the time lag between the cyborg's present tense on the space station and the monitoring stations present tense on earth.