Anselm's old ontological argument without "exists"
  • jorndoe
    3.7k
    I was trying to reformulate Anselm's old ontological argument in terms of real versus imaginary instead of using "exists" (shortened for brevity)...

    1. X is defined as whatever than which none greater can be imagined

    2. a Y that is real is greater than a Y that is imaginary only

    3. so, by definition, if X is an idea in the mind and not real, then we can imagine something greater, a Z that is also real, which would contradict 1

    4. such an X is therefore real

    So-called "great-making attributes" aren't particularly well-defined (how "great" can a thought be anyway?), but I was more interested in the imagined versus real, or existentially mind-in/dependent, part here.
    The idea was to make the reification more explicit, sort of like from abstract to concrete.
    (OK the above isn't the best formulation, feel free to improve.)
    Anyway, those arguments seem to have their imagined beings hitch a ride to real on maximizing "greater".
    jorndoe Options
  • javi2541997
    5.9k
    ↪jorndoe
    X is real because it is not existentially dependent upon imagination. What I can't follow, as you also noticed, is the great-making attributes.

    First, the second premise states that Y that is real is greater than a Y that is imaginary only.
    But the third premise states if X is an idea in the mind and not real, then we can imagine something greater, a Z that is also real.

    If we keep imagining, Z and Y are never 'greater' than X. Those are just products of our imagination, while X already exists itself. Maybe we can imagine attributes of X, but not the existence per se. Therefore, X is the only existing being in reality.
    javi2541997 Options
  • Lionino
    2.7k
    X is a winged purple donkey more perfect than whatever can be imagined.
    A Y that is real is greater than a Y that is imaginary only
    The winged purple donkey is an idea in the mind and not real, therefore we can imagine a Z that is more perfect.
    We can't imagine anything more perfect.
    Therefore the winged purple donkey is real.
    Lionino Options
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