I suppose it counts now, after the fact. — NOS4A2
El régimen fascista de Benito Mussolini distribuyó carteles con el mensaje «Burro o cannoni?» con el objetivo de explicar a los italianos por qué en tiempos de guerra escaseaba la mantequilla y de paso pedir comprensión y sacrificio para la mayor gloria de la patria. Por último, en 1976 Margaret Thatcher en un discurso dijo, «Los soviéticos antepusieron las armas por encima de la mantequilla, pero nosotros pusimos casi todo antes que las armas». — Sergio A. Berumen
"Guns and Butter" describes the government allocation to defense spending versus social programs. A country's budget includes military programs for national security, or guns, and social programs such as Social Security or family assistance, the butter. Politicians have evolved the phrase "guns and butter" for use in all areas of fiscal budgeting where there is a substantial trade-off between defense and social spending.
The term "guns and butter" has been linked throughout history to the challenges of war and negotiations on defense spending. Its uses have varied from guns and butter, guns vs. butter, and guns or butter. Many trace the coining of the phrase to the beginning of World War I and the protesting resignation of Secretary of State William Bryan. — Investopedia
With the economy improving and doing well (low unemployment, strong investment, improved foreign trade) the question of ‘Guns or Butter’ began to haunt Germany in 1936. Schacht knew that if rearmament continued at this pace the balance of payments would go crippling downhill, and he advocated increasing consumer production to sell more abroad. Many, especially those poised to profit, agreed, but another powerful group wanted Germany ready for war. — ThoughtCo
‘Guns before butter’ meant that food shortages were already present from the mid-1930s onwards. As Nancy Reagin has shown, preparations for war ‘led to economic policies that often worked against civilian consumers’ interests’. The quality of butter and cheese declined, and there was an increase in the use of inferior vegetable fats to create new fat compounds. By the winter of 1936–1937, shopkeepers sold butter only to their regular customers. Eating patterns changed. — Patrizia Sambuco and Lisa Pine
Yeah, I was specifically looking for quotes about fascism, by fascists, not a general phrase used by a multitude of politicians across many ideologies. — NOS4A2
Benito Mussolini's fascist regime distributed posters with the message "Butter or cannoni?" — Arcane Sandwich
I knew it as a general economic principle, sure. I didn’t know Mussolini used the phrase once in a speech or in a poster. — NOS4A2
So thanks for that. — NOS4A2
I’m genuinely surprised that there aren’t more quotes, despite you saying there were several. — NOS4A2
To what end?Yeah, I was specifically looking for quotes about fascism, by fascists, not a general phrase used by a multitude of politicians across many ideologies. — NOS4A2
Mussolini's 'spiritual' version of L'Etat, c'est moi.Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number; but it is the purest form of democracy if the nation be considered as it should be from the point of view of quality rather than quantity, as an idea, the mightiest because the most ethical, the most coherent, the truest, expressing itself in a people as the conscience and will of the few, if not, indeed, of one,
and ending to express itself in the conscience and the will of the mass, of the whole group ethnically molded by natural and historical conditions into a nation, advancing,
as one conscience and one will, along the self same line of development and spiritual
formation. Not a race, nor a geographically defined region, but a people,
historically perpetuating itself; a multitude unified by an idea and imbued with
the will to live, the will to power, self-consciousness, personality.
Historian Ian Kershaw once wrote that "trying to define 'fascism' is like trying to nail jelly to the wall."[28] Each group described as "fascist" has at least some unique elements, and frequently definitions of "fascism" have been criticized as either too broad or too narrow.[29] According to many scholars, fascists—especially when they're in power—have historically attacked communism, conservatism, and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far-right.[30] - wiki
Hitler's version of making Germany great again.The National Government will therefore regard it as its first and supreme task to restore to the German people unity of mind and will. It will preserve and defend the foundations on which the strength of our nation rests. It will take under its firm protection Christianity as the basis of our morality, and the family as the nucleus of our nation and our state. Standing above estates [groups that make up society’s social hierarchy] and classes, it will bring back to our people the consciousness of its racial and political unity and the obligations arising therefrom. It wishes to base the education of German youth on respect for our great past and pride in our old traditions. . . . Germany must not and will not sink into Communist anarchy.
The true antithesis, not to this or that manifestation of the liberal-democratic-socialistic conception of the state but to the concept itself, is to be found in the doctrine of Fascism. For while the disagreement between Liberalism and Democracy, and between Liberalism and Socialism lies in a difference of method, as we have said, the rift between Socialism, Democracy, and Liberalism on one side and Fascism on the other is caused by a difference in concept. As a matter of fact, Fascism never raises the question of methods, using in its political praxis now liberal ways, now democratic means and at times even socialistic devices.
“Will there be some pain? Yes, maybe (and maybe not),” Trump wrote Sunday morning on social media. “But we will make America great again, and it will all be worth the price that must be paid.”
Sure, the guy who helped developed fascism is wrong about fascism. — NOS4A2
A bit off the topic, but Swedes had similar policies. I think we Finns didn't, because we were looked down upon as Mongols by the Swedish racists of the 19th and early 20th Century. But that's history... a lot changed in Europe after the demise of the Third Reich, as you know.
What is hilarious in the present discourse only accepts the American juxtaposition of natives against white "colonial" thinking in how that doesn't fit to the Sámi. The Sámi look exactly like Finns, you wouldn't at all in any way differ them from Finns. The Sámi have their large share of blue eyed and blonds so it ridiculous for them to have to talk about Finns "whites". And the "clash" between the Finns and the Sámi happened I guess in Antiquity when there simply was no Finnish country (as Finnish tribes fought each other until the Middle Ages), so the idea of native people/colonizers is funny in the case of Lapland. And the Sami as actually so few here, far less than people in Greenland. — ssu
This indifference to method often exposes Fascism to the charge of incoherence on the part of superficial observers, who do not see that what counts with us is the end and that therefore even when we employ the same means we act with a radically different spiritual attitude and strive for entirely different results. The Fascist concept then of the nation, of the scope of the state, and of the relations obtaining between society and its individual components, rejects entirely the doctrine which I said proceeded from the theories of natural law developed in the course of the XVI, XVII, and XVIII centuries and which form the basis of the liberal, democratic, and socialistic ideology.
Unless they use all of the devices in service to the Fascist state. — NOS4A2
This indifference to method often exposes Fascism to the charge of incoherence on the part of superficial observers, who do not see that what counts with us is the end and that therefore even when we employ the same means we act with a radically different spiritual attitude and strive for entirely different results.
The Fascist concept then of the nation, of the scope of the state, and of the relations obtaining between society and its individual components, rejects entirely the doctrine which I said proceeded from the theories of natural law developed in the course of the XVI, XVII, and XVIII centuries and which form the basis of the liberal, democratic, and socialistic ideology.
I think that we are talking about autocracy and totalitarianism rather than just fascism. Totalitarianism would be more useful than the just fascism. — ssu
Just as Stalin, the guy who helped develop socialism, — Arcane Sandwich
My contention is that Stalin was not involved in the development of socialism: he may have made speeches about it (which added nothing to existing social theory), but all his official acts were aimed at making a stronger, better armed federation than the US.My point was precisely thus: just because someone was actively involved in the development of X, that doesn't entail that the person in question can't be wrong about X. — Arcane Sandwich
Let's consider the case of democratic means, to focus on just one example. What would remain of the fascist state if the means of representative democracy were to be the norm? Suppose Mussolini is effectively the Duce. Now suppose that presidential elections are held. And suppose that John Doe gets more votes than Mussolini. Suppose further that, after being elected, John Doe & company (as in, legislators, senators, etc.) carry out a series of reforms such that Fascist Country X starts to look more and more like the United States of America. What remains of the fascist state then, as envisioned by Mussolini, Rocco, and others? Nothing remains of it.
This is just wishful thinking. It's like Stalin's wishful thinking of Socialism In One Country.
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.