• Hailey
    69
    How can China ever be considered socialist when it is not democratic, and it currently stands accused of:
    - acting like an imperialist conqueror in Tibet.
    - imposing a permanent government/dictatorship in mainland China and in Hong Kong.
    - currently performing a military build up and an aggressive posture in the south China sea.
    universeness

    It's funny today i actually asked my friend "does our nation still advocate demoncracy?". It even surprised me when I said it. In my subconsious mind, China has deviated from what is was. For these many questions you asked, I think they do not seem relevant to the Chinese people, because they are our govenment's decision. As for the people, we have limited info sources and even these are controled by the government. Also, there is this fear of saying something wrong, which, I'm comtempleting today, whether it is justified. Because I personally have not heard about such retaliations for what someone said. Though, this fear is prevailing. So maybe it already worked without the need to even act on it. But again, China is a huge country to govern. It is still in development, so too much liberty or maybe even a bit more liberty may cause severe damage. As a traditionally more reserved country, we do value stability and safty as a nation and we surely have benefited from the prospority we enjoyed thanks to the peaceful environment. But the future is no such suspense as it is partially manifested from the Chinese stock market. And I'm sure there is a prize that we have to pay for our peace, whether it's the freedom of speech, or innovation, or individual development.
  • Hailey
    69
    Maybe I understood wrongly, but it seems that you perceive Modern China as highly-developed in economics but undeveloped in terms of ethics or morality.

    I disagree here. In my opinion, a system that relies on ethics or morals of individuals would be doomed to fail. Because humans are unreliable, around the world, even in developed countries. What we need, from my perspective, is law and wise regulation and of course, bona fide execution.
  • javi2541997
    5.8k
    We fear what we said online might have real life consequencesHailey

    I wish you will no have trouble.

    I'd say Mao is someone special to Chinese.Hailey

    Interesting. I thought something similar regarding Mao. It is true that China has changed a lot since then, but he is the main image of the revolution in 1949 (sorry if I miss some dates). He is even regarded as one of the most important and influential individuals in the twentieth century.

    One anecdote: I have Chinese neighbours in my building and one day they invited me to his home to fix something (I think a computer). I remember that when I entered his saloon, there was a big portrait of Mao. I didn't consider them "communist" back then nor now. I just thought how important is Mao in Chinese culture and citizens. He is a big part of your history.
  • Hailey
    69
    I remember that when I entered his saloon, there was a big portrait of Mao. I didn't consider them "communist" back then nor now.javi2541997

    Yes, it's exactly what I've encountered. Some very decent people have very strong beliefs in Mao. I had a friend in fact, who in my view is a very good person, once shared with me his admiration of Mao, and even recommended his book to me, which surprised me quite a bit, since so much time has passed and I naturally thought that his influence has dwindled. Another thing I‘d like to point out is that i think what really appears to these Mao admirers is this ideal image of a true socialist society which is embodies by Mao, it's this hope for a better, even utopia-like world. At last, thank you for your interest in China and thank you for your effort in trying to really see it and understand it.
  • universeness
    6.3k
    I think they do not seem relevant to the Chinese people, because they are our govenment's decision.Hailey

    If that's true then why do you think the Tiananmen Square protests happened ? and why were Chinese people, willing to put their lives on the line to protest against the political system being imposed on them.

    As for the people, we have limited info sources and even these are controled by the government. Also, there is this fear of saying something wrong, which, I'm comtempleting today,Hailey
    I can only try to place myself in the frame you present. If I felt a threat from my own government, described as you describe it above. Then I would join those who wanted to end them as an authority in the country I lived in (in my case, Scotland.) I accept however that can be a very scary prospect and I also accept that often, those fighting for a fairer system, lose, like those hero Chinese who stood against the Chinese regime at Tiananmen Square and the brave Chinese who are trying to fight to maintain the freedoms of Hong Kong people. The original Chinese revolution was a socialist movement but as was the same in the French and Russian revolution, it became corrupted by opportunists and leaders such as Mao who let their own narcissism and self-aggrandizement, overwhelm their original cause. Animal farm , by George Orwell best described this phenomena that has plagued humanism and socialism, in it's cause of making a better world for all. Surely we have had enough historical examples of this phenomena now and in the future, when next humanists and socialists overthrow a tyranny, we will not allow any single leader or small group to 'fill' the power gap created by the blood and sacrifice of the people. This first priority must be to establish, very powerful checks and balances, so that no individual or small group can ever hold autocratic or totalitarian power in place of the tyranny just removed. That is the lesson of Animal farm and all failed people revolutions such as those in France, Spain, Russia and China.

    the Chinese stock market.Hailey

    These words alone, suggest to me that China has decided to engage fully in the capitalist system, so look to America for a prediction of the future of it's people. Do the Chinese people want to become a society that mimics the current American society we see portrayed on TV and on the internet everyday?
    We need new approaches. A true socialist system has never succeeded anywhere in the world yet, it has always been thwarted by the cult of personality phenomena, but, I think we have learned a great deal about such phenomena and how to combat it.
  • guanyun
    31
    To answer your second question, I would say the emphasis on economy weakened. Nationalism and personality cult are on the rise. So there is a growing tension in China regarding him and his policies. As for charisma, no comment on it. I guess I value more what he actually accomplish during his time as a chairman. For some people, I guess the charisma thing is real, though for people like me, this sort of propaganda seems more like a means to an end since we've passed that stage where there would be a prevailing belief in one person. These are just from my perspective :).Hailey

    In China policy shifts have to be made very carefully, and often shifts are viewed by the public as lethargic, but it is now starting to take a renewed focus on the economy and a policy shift.
  • guanyun
    31
    I disagree here. In my opinion, a system that relies on ethics or morals of individuals would be doomed to fail. Because humans are unreliable, around the world, even in developed countries. What we need, from my perspective, is law and wise regulation and of course, bona fide execution.Hailey

    Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly, I'm not talking about metaphysical morality such as reliance on justice, I'm talking about morality as a conscious adherence to and respect for the law.
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