Too much general and quite a wrong example as a summation of morality."The state of all human morality can be summed up in two sentences: We ought to. But we don't."
Kurt Tucholsky — Jacques
— Kurt Tucholsky — Jacques
What do you say? — Jacques
It is better for me to donate, so I do. — Philosophim
that's exactly what I meant: you donate because it's better for you. — Jacques
You're right about that, but if it can refer to anything, it can also refer to morality.This statement can refer to anything, not to a moral issue in particular. — Alkis Piskas
If I interpret Tucholsky correctly, he does not want to show how morality works, but rather that it does not work at all, at least not for adult people. What we "ought to" is demanded by moralists, philosophers, theologians, teachers and parents. Who obeys it? I think children are the most likely to do it.No, that's not how morality works. When it works.
Who determines the "ought to"? Who obeys it, under what conditions? Who disobeys it, under what conditions? Human motivation is never, not even in the first five years of life, as simple as calculating benefit. — Vera Mont
Its not for personal benefit like going to the movies or something. Trust me, I can find far more ways to enjoy the money and I wouldn't feel a twinge of guilt. Not everything is about personal benefit. — Philosophim
This good feeling can be triggered from person to person by different things: for one person by money, for another by power, attention, love, gratitude, sociability, favorite pastime ... etc. — Jacques
"It is better for me to donate, so I do."
Please decide whether you have benefited or not. You cannot have both at the same time. — Jacques
True, but not meaningless. Why should it be? — Jacques
Human motivation is based on reward from the reward center in the brain rather than on calculation. — Jacques
Exactly. This is what I meant: it's not characteristic of morality. A characteristic is a peculiar and distinctive quality of something. Alone, independently of context, it cannot express, represent, etc. morality.This statement can refer to anything, not to a moral issue in particular.
— Alkis Piskas
You're right about that, but if it can refer to anything, it can also refer to morality.
As for the context, there is none, since it is an aphorism that stands alone. — Jacques
I do not receive ANYTHING for giving my money away. This should be clear. — Philosophim
Maybe we're having a language barrier of intentions here. I've tried to make it clear that I do not benefit from giving my money away compared to using the money for myself. I am not contradicting myself. When I say, "It is better for me", translate this to, "It is more ethical for me". I do not receive ANYTHING for giving my money away. This should be clear. — Philosophim
In my opinion, people only do something if they expect it to benefit them, and not because they ought to do it. — Jacques
I believe that you get a good feeling about it, and a good feeling is more than NOTHING. It represents a value in itself, and not a small one. — Jacques
I don't disagree with you, but I wonder if a soft form of self-interested altruism might be behind such actions? Any thoughts on this? — Tom Storm
I would not have felt guilty. I have no particular feelings towards my sister or her kids. She's made her own choices in life. I still sometimes have pushes to just leave and go up North. But I don't because its not time yet. I choose my outcomes in life based on what is most moral, because I've spent a lot of time thinking on these things and not letting my emotions sway my decisions. — Philosophim
More an Epicurean than a Stoic? :cool: :up:In my own case, I rarely know why I do anything and have very little insight into my motivations - I'm a swirling vortex of contradictions and unconscious values and biases. Despite this I feel unreasonably content. — Tom Storm
You sound very certain. You are talking about what you are conscious of. Can you rule out unconscious influences on your actions - guilt, duty, etc? — Tom Storm
You're going to have to trust me on this one despite it just being an internet conversation. — Philosophim
Can you rule out unconscious influences on your actions - guilt, duty, pride, etc? — Tom Storm
Hey, I don't doubt that you are sincere and believe this. I guess I hold a view that all people, regardless of how they make decisions, are influenced by unconscious factors - biases, desires, etc. — Tom Storm
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