I can explain why I find that story so hilarious, if you don't understand it, but, the more interesting 'cultural' fallout, is perhaps expressed in a question such as, are the implications of names, culturally critical? — universeness
I’m pro-choice, by the way, in case that wasn’t clear and it matters at all, and I wasn’t arguing for or against abortion because that wasn’t the point. — praxis
I think, when it comes to abortion we might want to ask what does "liberty" mean? For darn sure a woman with a child, in her belly or her arms, does not have liberty. If she does not want to be a mother and/or does not have the ability to provide for the child, the effect of her pregnancy will not be good.
How does society look at mothers who need help supporting a child? Is she honored almost as much as the Great Earth Mother or is she shamed and marginalized? Will her child be welcomed by the community and be valued by this community? It is not just the mother and child we need to consider but also the community the child is being born into.
PS How about privacy? I think privacy is very important and what we do with our bodies including not only abortion but also the right to die with dignity, is between ourselves and God. There are some things that are public and others that are private. Government and our neighbors should stay out of what is private.
Unwilling parents have been known to rise to the occasion and a child add much to their lives, so the overall effect could turn out to be good in many cases, in which case your cause-and-effect moral theory doesn't pan-out so well.
Ah yes… education. A definite necessity. But the details… what kind of education?That is not easy, no one pays attention to what I have to say about logos, education, or democracy
— Athena
That's just not true. I very much agree with Education! Education! Education! I just don't see much value in any emphasis on Greek/Athenian values or on the musings of ancient thinkers such as Plato or Aristotle. I prefer more contemporary musings. — universeness
Ah yes… education. A definite necessity. But the details… what kind of education? — 0 thru 9
The education for democracy is for rule by reason and it opposes authority over the people. It does not support authority over the people and make them dependent on authority as the God of Abraham religions do.
Please, contemplate the serious difference between preparing the young to be as children to the king or preparing them to govern themselves and to eventually participate in governing a nation ruled by reason, not authority over the people. A nation that argues reasoning with logic and not guns. — Athena
. I very much agree with Education! Education! Education! I just don't see much value in any emphasis on Greek/Athenian values or on the musings of ancient thinkers such as Plato or Aristotle. I prefer more contemporary musings. — universeness
I am an example of such a teacher, who took early retirement at 55, because I was burnt out because of the education system in Scotland.I know several former caring teachers who were totally burnt out by the system. — 0 thru 9
I know several former caring teachers who were totally burnt out by the system.
— 0 thru 9
I am an example of such a teacher, who took early retirement at 55, because I was burnt out because of the education system in Scotland. — universeness
Much of this thread, is a discussion about how educational curricula should be constructed and what it should focus on, and how critical, national/tribal culture is, to that process. — universeness
What could a solution be? It strains my imagination to even think of some.
As the culture goes, so goes its components such as education.
When money dictates the rules and sets the pace, everything becomes a facade, a front.
Our culture is a drug addict, and the drug is money. All other concerns are given lip service or forgotten. — 0 thru 9
All historical civilisations have failed. — universeness
We need to teach why, — universeness
I advocate for a united species, no more nations, one planet, global governance with a resource based global economy that has automation at its core and good stewardship of this planet, as one of it's prime directives. — universeness
And the bigger empires grew the faster they collapsed.
My contention is that civilizations fail because they attempt to eradicate tribalism, in order to subsume the members of the tribes they conquer into a unified whole. It's never worked, so far. People do not want to be relived of their group identity and loyalty. They fight onto the death to liberate their tribe from the domination of a larger, more powerful civilization - even if that civilization is by all of its own standards superior to their own. Children assimilate more easily - which was the original idea behind the residential school system: the benevolent and beautiful white people were going to capture young savages in the wilderness and civilize them. It didn't go according to plan. — Vera Mont
There is good and bad about that. The bad happens if we cannot find any common ground at all, ever.Unfortunately, we believe and/or profess very different versions of that "why". — Vera Mont
See, common ground! If only I could find as much common ground with MAGA Trump supporters, as I can with you.I agree with that vision, — Vera Mont
A good comfortable piece of common ground within which useful and fruitful negotiation, action planning and trial projects can be agreed upon and can begin.let the global union be a federation of self-defined tribes, because that is the level of organization at which human societies have been cohesive and stable for the longest periods. The global government needs do nothing more than arbitrate inter-tribal contention, oversee equitable resource distribution and make pooled knowledge available to all. — Vera Mont
Short of total armageddon – in this scarcity-driven global civilization, my friend – how do you propose to get the "nefarious few" to relinquish "control over a divided and ill-informed global mass of people" who are, for the most part, "money tricked" (from Glasgow to Guangzhou, Brooklyn to Benin, Tel Aviv to Tazmania) by a 24/7 global, virtual menagerie of various hedonic treadmills schemes from cradle to grave? :chin:The removal of money as a means of exchange and the removal of the money trick and religion, as the main means by which a nefarious few, can gain control over a divided and ill-informed global mass of people. — universeness
Imo, traditional tribalism, learned in a rather shallow and narrow scope, will naturally fade over time, due to the wider scope on offer, with more cooperation. — universeness
The good comes from the fact that opposing positions creates choice and choice is always better than no choice. — universeness
See, common ground! If only I could find as much common ground with MAGA Trump supporters, as I can with you. — universeness
Short of total armageddon – in this scarcity-driven global civilization, my friend – how do you propose to get the "nefarious few" to relinquish "control over a divided and ill-informed global mass of people" who are, for the most part, "money tricked" — 180 Proof
Via the needs, demands, and the protestations of the many, and via the political representatives and the political systems, a better informed populous will vote for, in the future.how do you propose to get the "nefarious few" to relinquish "control over a divided and ill-informed global mass of people" who are, for the most part, "money tricked" — 180 Proof
What do you mean by "learned in a shallow and narrow scope"? — Vera Mont
I broadly agree. It's a pity that many decided that competitive conquest of the neighbours was a more efficient solution, than trying to negotiate and cooperate with them. All the ideas that you mentioned, 'alliance,' 'federation,' 'trade,' 'cooperation,' 'social gathering,' sound good to me. We should keep and nurture all of those and get rid of as many aspect as possible, related to 'autocracy,' 'dictatorship,' 'survival of the fittest,' 'war,' etc. I am quite happy to go with a global united people, made up of smaller sub-groups of separate flavours of human.There is no reason tribes have to compete instead of cooperating. There have been alliances and federations since long before history, and intertribal trade and social gatherings to exchange information and mates go back to Neanderthal clan structure. Cooperation doesn't require homogenization. — Vera Mont
You and I live in the same universe. They don't. — Vera Mont
Limited land boundary. — universeness
Limited knowledge base. — universeness
Living under a hierarchical authority system, often with a single leader at the top. — universeness
A small tribe on a big planet. — universeness
Yeah but they don't live in a different universe, — universeness
That also applies to the globe. If you wanted to preserve some remnant of nature, humans would have to be limited ion what land they can occupy and exploit. — Vera Mont
Yes, I was referring to older tribal systems.Why? Won't they all have internet access, once the economy and governance is technology based? — Vera Mont
I say. Most tribal systems are similar and there is not a 'great variety' in the ways they operated. There is some variety yes, but not 'great variety.'Who says? Tribal systems are organized in a great variety of ways, most of them far more egalitarian than what we now, with a bitter laugh, call democracies. — Vera Mont
Do many individual bricks, beat the hell out of a wall or a home? Do many individual quarks and electrons, beat the hell out of atoms? Does a universe beat the hell out of one big multi-verse?Many small tribes on a big planet beats all hell out of one ginormous tribe on a small planet. — Vera Mont
They would still have such as freedom of travel. — universeness
Yes, I was referring to older tribal systems. — universeness
There is some variety yes, but not 'great variety.' — universeness
Do many individual bricks, beat the hell out of a wall or a home? — universeness
Does a universe beat the hell out of one big multi-verse? — universeness
Do people deliberately do that? — universeness
What was the point? — Vera Mont
I think the bottom line here is that sapiens are not rational beings and therefore suggesting that morality is essentially rational, that it "is a matter of cause & effect" is false and misguided. Morality involves personal and shared values, identity, and intuitions that we may not even be consciously aware of. — praxis
I think anyone who is excessively wealthy must be scrutinised by that domain. That is my version of 'big brother is watching you.' Big brother would become a label for the mass of the population of the planet. This is the way a good 'big brother,' was always supposed to be, in a human family. A guy who helped protect the family from nefarious b*******. — universeness
This is a crucial question.
And because it seems difficult to not think it sounds like a naïve question or adopt a jaded, cynical, or pessimistic attitude towards it, may illustrate how low our expectations have slid.
A culture that can’t cover such a basic need is in trouble. (Probably not breaking news to anyone… ) — 0 thru 9
I think if Orwell could have imagined an artificial general intelligence in 1949 his book 1984 would have been a bit different. Can you imagine the power of media manipulation and surveillance it could have? We appear to be rapidly approaching AGI and those who develop it, the excessively wealthy, will be in control. — praxis
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