• introbert
    80
    If I seem to be making lots of discussions about irony, things are certainly as they appear because I am, for I do have a preoccupation with irony. As I have stated before I believe irony is a common subjective phenomenon, if not the basic phenomenon that underlies the process of inquiry by which we determine anything about everything. Humans are if anything good learners, but our initial understandings of things are incredibly naive. Our abilities to expect may become better as we gain experience, but I contend experience creates foreknowledge which is distinct from naive expectation or speculation. However, even with foreknowledge life is still full of ironic surprises that are contrary to expectation.

    There are empirical philosophical methods and systems for creating objective knowledge about the world. The scientific method is one such system of empiricism. It can be applied to the material world effectively, but scientific principles applied to society create much irony indeed. In the legal field, laws are codified to create legal objects that are used to deal with criminality in a rational and consistent ways with structured expectations. Criminality is ironic in a sense given effective policing, surveillance, punishments, and prevailing legal objective rationality that to break the law is the opposite of what one would expect. The next system of objective knowledge, psychiatry, underlines the subjective aspect of irony in contrast to psychiatric objectivity, with mental disorder creating behavior that differs from normality which structures expectation.

    Those are a few objective systems and examples of irony. There are more, but for the purposes of efficient writing those will suffice for now. Since irony can be a subjective phenomenon as well as a kind of situation or event that debatably occurs outside the mind, I contend there is social process that occurs due to ironic events and the subjective experience of irony. There are many examples of this, but I'll try to provide an interesting example: it is illegal to use marijuana because of supposed harm it causes, but the widespread enforcement of the law creates much more harm. Ironies such as this where naive humans have expectations regarding something create objectivity regarding it, precipitating a situation partly due to the false belief, that creates the opposite of the expectation, effectively producing an argument against the objective truth and creating revolutionary change. That is one example from an immense history of human naivety.
  • javi2541997
    2.2k


    it is illegal to use marijuana because of supposed harm it causes, but the widespread enforcement of the law creates much more harm.

    Why? The enforcement of law towards the use of marijuana is based on prevent health problems. I do not see it as irony... It could be a good example of this if the state uses it with the aim of collecting taxes from the citizens as they already do with alcohol and tobacco.
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    Your example is a case of inverse consequences. You want to achieve X. You have a plan P. When you implement the plan P, the result is ~X (the exact opposite). This is what to you is irony - a mismatch of expectations and actual outcomes.

    There's also perverse consequences to watch out for - the solution aggravates the problem further (from the frying pan into the fire).

    Anyway these specific instances of irony are only an aspect of the the problem which is simply that the world is upside down. You see , but study it carefully and it's actually , vice versa. We're in trouble, deep trouble!
  • introbert
    80
    So you see the irony in the state collecting sin taxes. The state is supposed to uphold virtues on society but they profit off of sin. I see it as only a little ironic compared to the example I provided.
  • introbert
    80
    actually I think what people see as ironic is one of the important things about it. Irony exists as kind of an argument and to acknowledge it accepts an internal inconsistency in its object.
  • javi2541997
    2.2k
    Irony exists as kind of an argument and to acknowledge it accepts an internal inconsistency in its object.introbert

    Yes, agreed. But irony is used as a tool to get benefits too. To be honest, I am bad at using irony because I connect such act with lying...
    Irony is like an appropriate use of good words (or intentions) but holds a mask behind of it which seems to be dangerous...
    Governments and governors tend to speak with a lot of irony. They call it "rethoric skills" I label it as "sick liars"
  • introbert
    80
    Irony is an important code. It can be used to hide the intended meaning especially in times of limited speech. But I find anything can be read ironically even when the author has no ironic intention.

    "Look at the last statement I wrote. You can read "Irony is not an important code at all. It is used as an obvious way of conveying intended meaning when you are saying something you shouldn't. But not everything can be read ironically especially when the author has no ironic attention."

    The ironic interpretation of any text immediately subverts the writers intentions as reading it as sarcasm
  • javi2541997
    2.2k
    The ironic interpretation of any text immediately subverts the writers intentions as reading it as sarcasmintrobert

    But I think sarcasm can be used in an intellectual perspective. It is even a tricky tool to maintain the conversation alive and their nature can show off the intelligence of a person. To be honest, I cannot see sarcasm used with bad faith or malice
  • introbert
    80
    I hope youre saying that ironically because most sarcasm is used in a condescending way.

    Or to put it another way: Oh I agree completely sarcasm is never used in a malicious way to condescend, it's unprecedented!
  • javi2541997
    2.2k
    I hope youre saying that ironically because most sarcasm is used in a condescending way.introbert

    :smirk: :eyes:
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