• Agent Smith
    7.6k
    Some of us need to turn off our empathy, like soldiers, who do all the dirty work, do!
  • Alkis Piskas
    1.3k
    Some of us need to turn off our empathy, like soldiers, who do all the dirty work, do!Agent Smith
    Right. It all has to do with emotions. And behind them are thoughts. And behind them is mind. That's why so many soldiers --"who do all the dirty work", as you say-- come back from wars mentally damaged.
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    Right. It all has to do with emotions. And behind them are thoughts. And behind them is mind. That's why so many soldiers --"who do all the dirty work", as you say-- come back from wars mentally damaged.Alkis Piskas

    Yes, by dirty work I mean precisely that! On point mon ami!

    I hear veterans aren't treated all that well - no surprises there because how many of 'em is the government gonna pander to? There are quite literally thousands upon thousands of ex-armymen out there ; some are on the streets, others are alcoholics, most never recover from the trauma. Too bad, eh?
  • Alkis Piskas
    1.3k

    Really bad, yes.
    The latest film I think I watched on the subject --a very good one-- was "Thank You for Your Service". You might have seen it yourself too. If not, check
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_for_Your_Service_(2017_film).
    It's about "posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depicting U.S. soldiers who try to adjust to civilian life." And this was a "mild" story. Earlier films I watched we much more "ugly".
  • Athena
    2.2k
    I will back off Athena. I don't want it to seem like I am trying to manipulate your heartstrings to compel you to keep doing what you have always done. You have battled in support of those which our current society ignores and discards, you have done enough, regardless of what you decide to do next.universeness

    Oh please, I have found you validating and motivating. And this is not like the past. In the past, everything seemed manageable but now the problems have exploded. My community has done so much to resolve homelessness and the problem keeps getting bigger. However, you put me on a good path, of researching and believing I can do some good by testifying at the Oregon Legislature after the first of the year. I am really excited about what I might do.

    I am reminded of a geology professor's explanation of exponential growth. That last doubling of the population makes manageable problems unmanageable and no one saw it coming because it seems to happen all at once. If we didn't have such a severe housing shortage we wouldn't have such a serious problem with homelessness. If the person I am trying to help could rent a bedroom for $400 there would be no problem. Many homeless people have a monthly income. It just isn't enough to pay the high rents. We don't have the land for more houses and the cost of building is extremely high. :lol: I don't know if a math lesson would help the legislature understand the problem. That is not the emotional story that motivates people to take action.

    I also may have found a way to help the gentleman. Well, we have made a lot of progress, and doing this has been a learning experience. A huge barrier is communication! Every organization has its own terminology and acronyms and they just assume they are making sense when us outsiders don't have a clue what they are talking about. That is a problem that can be fixed without spending any money. Just stop using that insider talk when speaking with someone who is not an insider. And like a miracle, people are finally giving us written information that is useful.

    I need to ponder if I can do that written information more effectively so every agency has all of it and a person asking for help can have that information from day one. For sure the 2 pages of rentals from 2 years ago, are not useful today and a person has to question if the bureaucrats have a good understanding of reality when they pass out useless information. :lol: You begin by saying the person is homeless and they ask for the person's address. You explain the person has brain damage and they want a phone number. They will gladly send information to a person's email and s/he can print it. Like they seem to have no clue of what it means to be homeless and brain damaged and without resources.
  • universeness
    2.9k
    I can do some good by testifying at the Oregon Legislature after the first of the year. I am really excited about what I might do.Athena

    I have no doubt about that and believe the above quote to be quite accurate. You seem a tour de force.
    I just wish others with power and determination would rally to you. Look at the women of Iran right now!
    They have had enough of backwards misogynistic shit from religious antiques, and they are protesting and burning their hijabs. When you look at the protesting crowds, there are as many men out supporting the women as there are women. 6 people killed so far but this has not stopped the people. I so hope this grows into a serious challenge to the horrible regime in Iran.

    I am reminded of a geology professor's explanation of exponential growth. That last doubling of the population makes manageable problems unmanageable and no one saw it coming because it seems to happen all at once. If we didn't have such a severe housing shortage we wouldn't have such a serious problem with homelessness. If the person I am trying to help could rent a bedroom for $400 there would be no problem. Many homeless people have a monthly income. It just isn't enough to pay the high rents. We don't have the land for more houses and the cost of building is extremely high. :lol: I don't know if a math lesson would help the legislature understand the problem. That is not the emotional story that motivates people to take action.Athena

    An irresistible movement for serious and permanent change can also grow exponentially as well if people have had enough of injustices such as homeless in a land of plenty such as the USA. People get tired of lining the pockets of greedy landlords whilst their tenants live under rules which the landlords don't live under. The few can only steal the cream for so long. If you give people few reasons to live, then their fear reduces more and more, especially their fear of retribution if they revolt. They have little to lose but the controlling few have a great deal to lose.

    Just stop using that insider talk when speaking with someone who is not an insider. And like a miracle, people are finally giving us written information that is useful.Athena

    Couldn't agree more, once you get past all the trained monkeys, and the strange sounds and movements they make to distract you from the organ grinder, you reach the truth of the matter and can then clearly reveal how unfair and unfit for purpose the system is. Then you and your supporters can demand change, on threat of political deselection/destruction/removal of those currently in power.

    You begin by saying the person is homeless and they ask for the person's address. You explain the person has brain damage and they want a phone number. They will gladly send information to a person's email and s/he can print it. Like they seem to have no clue of what it means to be homeless and brain damaged and without resources.Athena

    As I typed, the distracting monkeys are well trained. They are perfectly aware that their system is front loaded with as much BS info as possible and as many 'up the hill and down again and around and around we go' pathways, to compel most applicants to go away and stop bothering them for help.
    They know EXACTLY how to help each person but many local authorities would much rather spend their budget on maintaining the surrounding and services they provide for the 'well off,' people, not the challenged, needy people they consider a drain on their resources. The only hope for such challenged people is people like you!
  • Alkis Piskas
    1.3k

    Funny guy. Didn't know about him. Watched a couple of videos ...
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    Funny guy. Didn't know about him. Watched a couple of videos ...Alkis Piskas

    :grin:
  • Athena
    2.2k
    Today I am facing the reality of possibly being evicted. and I am sacred. I am not sure things have come to that, but neighbors have warned me management was investigating. A decision to evict me can be made by people who do not know me and have not spoken with me. Not that long ago we knew each other and we could discuss the rules and if exceptions can be made. This made a huge difference in our moral decisions because we were aware of how we affected each other's lives and we felt for each other. Today feelings have been taken out of the equation. The decisions are totally impersonal. That difference has everything to do with our liberty and morality. Total strangers making decisions that affect our lives as much as an eviction affects a person's life, with no communication and no feelings could be thought of as the biblical beast. I am not Christian, but that the beast is a pretty good analogy of the power over us and how our liberty and personal power are being crushed.

    Under that beast, family can not help family because of government-controlled privacy laws. The gentleman I am trying to help has a sister and a cousin who want to help, but privacy law prevents them from speaking for their brother and learning from the bureaucrats if there is any way to help him. We have made laws that destroy the family and make everyone dependent on the government. This is what we defended our democracy against in WWII and then we adopted Germany's model of bureaucracy and education for technology. We are now the mechanical society we defended our democracy against.

    So what if people are dying on the streets because they have trouble functioning in today's world.
    How is this different from rounding up the Jews and citizens not daring to resist the dictates of the government? I want to stress this is about our relationship with our government, our humanity, and morality and liberty.

    I am considering suicide might make my life meaningful if it gets attention to the problem we have created. When I think of all the people who lost their lives defending our democracy and what things have come too, and how their sacfrice means nothing if we do not turn around and reestablish individiual liberty and power.
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    suicideAthena

    It's that bad, eh?
  • Deus
    293


    A bit extreme and unprovable if it will have the effect you desire. Although the cause is noble suicide is not the way.
  • Athena
    2.2k
    Agent SmithAgent Smith
    DeusDeus

    DeusDeus

    I found out things are not exactly as I thought they were. I don't know what to think now but some young people seem to be better than those they are replacing. There is a greater liberalness. When I was finally able to make phone contact with the important people they approved of me adding the gentleman I am helping to my housing. It appears the rules have changed along with people having a more liberal attitude. I would like to know how to research this. Like when did the rules change and what motivated the change? Was it our housing crisis and being overwhelmed with homeless people that lead to rules being changed?

    Is the generation that is now taking the jobs more liberal than those before them and are my moral concerns unfounded fear of change? I would love to talk with the ancient Greek philosophers about my moral concerns. But that could be a little contentious. Plato's republic is the model of Utopias that failed, real and fictional ones. I am not the only one suspicious of government having too much power. In the 1830's Tocqueville wrote of Christian democracies becoming despots. There is Orwell and Huxley. And news talks about the popular distrust of government.

    But the last couple of days have calmed me down. I am getting what I asked for and I am not sure I want it. :lol: I think I will be meek for a while and consider I may not know enough to be too sure of myself. And thanks for the replies. I wanted to know what the reaction would be because I was not sure of my thinking being good logic. My ego likes the idea of dying for a good cause but that does not make it a good thing to do.
  • Athena
    2.2k
    I have no doubt about that and believe the above quote to be quite accurate. You seem a tour de force.
    I just wish others with power and determination would rally to you. Look at the women of Iran right now!
    They have had enough of backwards misogynistic shit from religious antiques, and they are protesting and burning their hijabs. When you look at the protesting crowds, there are as many men out supporting the women as there are women. 6 people killed so far but this has not stopped the people. I so hope this grows into a serious challenge to the horrible regime in Iran.
    universeness

    For sure I hope the women win the fight for their rights. We burned our bras and I am so thankful the danger to us was not as it is for the women of backward countries.

    An irresistible movement for serious and permanent change can also grow exponentially as well if people have had enough of injustices such as homeless in a land of plenty such as the USA. People get tired of lining the pockets of greedy landlords whilst their tenants live under rules which the landlords don't live under. The few can only steal the cream for so long. If you give people few reasons to live, then their fear reduces more and more, especially their fear of retribution if they revolt. They have little to lose but the controlling few have a great deal to lose.universeness

    This subject is very frightening because I think the US government has overextended itself. We are reaching our debt limit when war and problems caused by global warming threaten us. At the same time, our economy appears to be spinning out of control. This could be a different subject. For bloody sure, the increase in the minimum wage has not helped anyone as inflation keeps them down. We used to laugh at Russia because we heard many people jam into a home but here we are with people living together in their struggle to survive. As I said above the rules have changed allowing unrelated people to share housing. We must do more for people who need help but I don't know how we can. Things are out of control.

    Couldn't agree more, once you get past all the trained monkeys, and the strange sounds and movements they make to distract you from the organ grinder, you reach the truth of the matter and can then clearly reveal how unfair and unfit for purpose the system is. Then you and your supporters can demand change, on threat of political deselection/destruction/removal of those currently in power.universeness

    Okay, I tried to communicate to the council on aging that reliance on technology is locking people out of medical care and services. The man I am trying to help is locked out because he can not use a cell phone. I struggle to use a cell phone and with forms and conversations based on specialized jargon. I am having trouble getting blood work done because talking to a robot over the phone is too frustrating! I throw up my hands and think so what if I drop dead? At least then I don't have to deal with the barriers to getting services. I am old. I think this reliance on technology is just rude. It sure makes me feel powerless. The problem is not the technology. I am walking because of medical technology. I love technology but how it is being used can be a problem.


    As I typed, the distracting monkeys are well trained. They are perfectly aware that their system is front loaded with as much BS info as possible and as many 'up the hill and down again and around and around we go' pathways, to compel most applicants to go away and stop bothering them for help.

    They know EXACTLY how to help each person but many local authorities would much rather spend their budget on maintaining the surrounding and services they provide for the 'well off,' people, not the challenged, needy people they consider a drain on their resources. The only hope for such challenged people is people like you!
    universeness

    I would not say their intention is to lock people out, but that is the result. Well, my sister was a bureaucrat and she does not hold a high opinion of government workers who can not relate to those they serve and intentionally ignore phone calls while they socialize with each other. But I think many of them are overwhelmed with heavy workloads. When the bureaucrat I had to speak with finally called back she sounded like a very nice person. We have communication problems that is for sure!!!
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    It's as I used to say, messy. All models are wrong.
  • universeness
    2.9k
    For sure I hope the women win the fight for their rights. We burned our bras and I am so thankful the danger to us was not as it is for the women of backward countriesAthena

    Have you saw some of the mobile phone footage coming out of Iran, such as the two I posted recently in the shout box, in my 6th post on this page here
    ALL POWER TO THESE YOUNG BRAVE PEOPLE! Almost 200 people have lost their lives so far to this vile theistic regime.

    We must do more for people who need help but I don't know how we can. Things are out of control.Athena

    Similar to words I typed previously, one set of hands, held out, opened and pushed forwards can do little to protect individuals from a cold blowing wind but if many other hands joined you then things can get better. It's very old but it's still very true..... UNITED, WE STAND! DIVIDED, WE FALL!

    I am having trouble getting blood work done because talking to a robot over the phone is too frustrating! I throw up my hands and think so what if I drop dead? At least then I don't have to deal with the barriers to getting services.Athena

    No shame in seeking help, others accept your help, you can get help too. I now act as a barrier between my mother and the outside world. I deal with all authorities, medical, financial etc on her behalf but I do so based on her instructions, her directions, her wishes. I deal with the robots for her and those humans in call centres that can hardly speak English (no fault of theirs of course, just the usual profiteers using the cheapest labour force on offer), as I am fully able to do that. Don't be too pround Athena, get the help you are entitled to, the same help you are trying to get for others. Family/friends/neighbours/help groups/charities surely someone can help you here. In Scotland we have some fantastic organisations like 'Age concern,' 'Citizens Advice Bureau,' 'Alzheimer's society,' 'Local council, home help support,' etc, etc. You must have the equivalent of some of these.

    But I think many of them are overwhelmed with heavy workloads.Athena

    So are the poor sods they are supposed to be helping! Perhaps they are not overwhelmed with heavy workloads but overwhelmed by their unfair circumstances. I absolutely agree, that there are many good people working in the social care system but there are many f***wits as well! There is no question that they are over worked, under paid and way under-resourced and the real culprits are the politicians in power. The pressure must come from the people who must move 'en masse' to pressure those in power and demand significant improvement to the social care system, on threat of removal from power.
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