• Bret Bernhoft
    219
    Shamanism is the root of all religious, spiritual and philosophical systems. Our human (and non-human) ancestors have practiced Shamanism as far back as 100,000 years, all around the planet; regardless of culture, time and/or place. The study and practice of altering human consciousness for purposes of divination, healing, conflict and other similar needs is innate to our species. I would go as far as saying that altering consciousness is innate to all of life; but that's a conversation for another thread.

    As mentioned above, Shamanism is not isolated to a specific culture, time or place. And the modern world is no different. As such, being an atheist, I am pleased with the return on the investment I've made from my time studying and practicing Technoshamanism. Wherein (through my research, experiences, exeperimentations and relationships) I have observed the universal effectiveness of Shamanic technologies. An example of which can be found below:



    I make the claim that Shamanism is more quintessential than all other religious, spiritual and philosophical systems. And that science (itself) is a shamanic practice; testing and applying the best solution(s) for the challenges and curiosities that one faces. Meaning that the scientific method is nothing more than a Shamanic mantra; but certainly not a dogma. Shamanism is flexible like that.
    1. Is Shamanism useful for discerning the truth? (11 votes)
        Yes
        18%
        No
        82%
  • 180 Proof
    14.4k
    Is Shamanism useful for discerning the truth?Bret Bernhoft
    "The truth" of what?
  • javi2541997
    5.1k
    Our human (and non-human) ancestors have practiced Shamanism as far back as 100,000 years, all around the planet;Bret Bernhoft

    Put some examples of "non-human" ancestors, please.

    Is Shamanism useful for discerning the truth?Bret Bernhoft

    No. Shamanism is not a "root" of religion but it is a religion itself. Look, I will put some examples and you will see how Shamanism is so connected with another type of religion:

    1. Shamanism depends on the predicate of a prophet, called "Shaman". As much as the other religions: Christianity (Jesus as a prophet) Judaism (Abraham) etc...

    2. There are not doctrines or theories of rationalism. You only have to accept what the Shaman adopts. You would not see inside shamanism different "theories" or "opposition parts" because that's only up to philosophy.

    3. Shamanism depends on faith as religion. The only difference is that in shamanism you believe in the "power" of the spirits of nature instead of God.

    I cannot see where you can introduce philosophy in those points...
  • 180 Proof
    14.4k
    A more likely candidate "the root of religion" is animism, or it seems to me. A precursor to shamanism, pantheism and (metaphysical) finalism / panpsychism. What do you think? :chin:
  • javi2541997
    5.1k


    Yes, animism seems to be a real precursor of shamanism or even some religions such as Shinto in Asia. The quick read I did give me the feeling that it fits what the OP is looking for: "roots" which expand other types of thoughts.
    Nevertheless, I still think that philosophy is apart from these "beliefs"
  • 180 Proof
    14.4k
    Nevertheless, I still think that philosophy is apart from these "beliefs"javi2541997
    :up:
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k
    The OP maybe conflating chronos with logos.
  • javi2541997
    5.1k


    We can never know what is going on in the OP's mind because he always tends to not answer our thoughts and posts:cry:
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k
    We can never know what is going on in the OP's mind because he always tends to not answer our thoughts and posts:cry:javi2541997

    He has the right to remain silent! :lol:
  • Bret Bernhoft
    219


    Oh man.

    Shamanism is not a "root" of religion but it is a religion itself.

    Shamanism isn't a religion. Shamanism is a set of tools.

    Shamanism depends on the predicate of a prophet, called "Shaman". As much as the other religions: Christianity (Jesus as a prophet) Judaism (Abraham) etc...

    Shamans aren't prophets. Anyone can be a shaman. Everyone is a shaman, most commonly without training or an awareness of such an innate state. Just like all actions are magick, so too is all consciousness shamanic; especially human consciousness.

    You only have to accept what the Shaman adopts. You would not see inside shamanism different "theories" or "opposition parts" because that's only up to philosophy.

    Are you religious yourself?

    Shamanism depends on faith as religion. The only difference is that in shamanism you believe in the "power" of the spirits of nature instead of God.

    There is no faith in shamanism. Shamanism is about evidence, showing the goods.

    Woah.
  • Bret Bernhoft
    219


    To be honest, I'm intimidated to respond to the minds/posts found herein. Everyone knows so much more than me. But that is a poor excuse, as learning is the greatest resource I can offer myself ATM.

    I'm here, just shell shocked.
  • Bret Bernhoft
    219


    I do, but I'm breaking open and out of my shell to more deeply engage with the world around and within me. Little by little.
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k
    I do, but I'm breaking open and out of my shell to more deeply engage with the world around and within me. Little by little.Bret Bernhoft

    Bonam fortunam, mon ami! Let your journey not end in you concluding that you were better off in your shell!
  • Bret Bernhoft
    219


    Thank you good person, thank you. I appreciate your blessings.
  • Gregory
    4.6k


    How much of shaimanism, old and new, is about promoting faith in something objective? A true religion knows that you can only have faith in something objective, while trying to alter your consciousness seems to be a subjective practice
  • javi2541997
    5.1k
    Shamanism is a set of toolsBret Bernhoft

    What kind of tools?

    Just like all actions are magick, so too is all consciousness shamanic; especially human consciousness.Bret Bernhoft

    But if I do not have the proper tools then my actions are not "magick" neither my consciousness is shamanic

    There is no faith in shamanism. Shamanism is about evidence, showing the goods.Bret Bernhoft

    What? There couldn't be evidence about "showing the goods" because that's a very generic concept. Discern about what is good and bad depends on ethics, thus philosophy. We say there are "goods" when we make actions which cause them but not thanks to shamanism.

    Look you are contradictory when you say shamanism is not about faith but at the same time you typed:

    Just like all actions are magick,Bret Bernhoft

    What is "magick" nothing but a state of faith on something?

    Are you religious yourself?Bret Bernhoft

    No
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k
    It just struck me that a shaman is/was basically a comms channel between us/people and the great unknown - they (shamans) bridged this terrifying gap as best as they could and brought some semblance of what in psychology is known as closure in our/people's lives.
  • javi2541997
    5.1k


    If you check out information about Shamanism, all the papers written by specialists, agree with the fact that shamans are related to some kind of religion. Their principles are connected to animism (as @180 Proof pointed out previously).
    This traditional thought is also related to Indigenous religion... the range of different belief systems across the Americas, Australasia, Asia, Africa, and Northern Europe, particularly to those practiced by communities living under the impact of colonialism.
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k


    What you say seems to be historical account of shamanism; not denying the experts on that point.

    What I've shared on this forum are merely my own analysis of what could be seen as a proto-religion. Shamanism never really took off like religions in real life though there's a mystique surrounding it, this being the result of romanticized fictional tales woven by writers, playwrights and film-makers around sorcerers and especially powerful sorceresses. :smile:
  • javi2541997
    5.1k


    Shamanism has always been romanticised by hippies! :sweat:
  • Pie
    1k
    Shamanism has always been romanticised by hippies! :sweat:javi2541997
    :up:
  • Pie
    1k
    It just struck me that a shaman is/was basically a comms channel between us/people and the great unknown - they (shamans) bridged this terrifying gap as best as they could and brought some semblance of what in psychology is known as closure in our/people's lives.Agent Smith

    :up:
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k
    Shamanism has always been romanticised by hippies! :sweat:javi2541997

    :lol:
  • Bret Bernhoft
    219


    Shamanism has always been romanticised by hippies! :sweat:

    To some extent you're correct. But is that inherently a negative trend? Is it so wrong that a subculture wishes to revisit our collective human roots?

    More importantly, is it not possible that among the so-called "hippies", that there are genuine and earnest seekers of empirical spiritual truths?
  • Bret Bernhoft
    219


    How much of shaimanism, old and new, is about promoting faith in something objective?

    That's an interesting question. The answer is, "None." Shamanism doesn't promote faith in anything. Shamanism is about firsthand, direct revelation. IOW, Shamanism is about relying on evidence. Always has been, always will be.

    A true religion knows that you can only have faith in something objective, while trying to alter your consciousness seems to be a subjective practice[.]

    Which is another excellent reason why Shamanism isn't a religion.
  • Bret Bernhoft
    219
    It should also be noted that Shamanism is a timeless practice. This is to say, that Shamanism manifests in our contemporary world, just as vibrantly as it has for many tens of thousands of years. Technoshamanism is a real "thing". Here is a decent overview of the subject:



    But don't take my word for it. Do your own research and experiments to verify these kinds of statements.
  • javi2541997
    5.1k


    No, I don't think it is negative. But what I guess is that "hippies" don't understand animism or shamanism pretty much. They just follow it because it seems to be "cool" being connected with nature but I personally think such theory is far of this thought...
    At least, you take it so seriously and I respect it. I mean, I see you can find some significance in the "root of universe" thanks to shamanism but at the same time, it is a primitive thought.
    Conclusion: it is not bad believing in shamanism but is far away from being a philosophical trend.
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k
    Shamanism manifests in our contemporary worldBret Bernhoft

    In terms of ends, si; in terms of means, nope! The question is, who's got it right?
  • Agent Smith
    9.5k
    cooljavi2541997

    Verisimilitude! Sometimes, not all the time, our feelings get the better of us! It's just part of nam-lu-úlu If I don't make mistakes, how will you learn. Aah, but I digress!

    A thousand apologies. — Ranjeet
  • javi2541997
    5.1k
    If I don't make mistakes, how will you learnAgent Smith

    :up:
  • Yohan
    679
    This sort of discussion is exactly what that one poster called "a hot dog question"
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