If we should not be afraid of/averse to non-existence because we cannot be deprived of something when we don't exist, we should also not chase/worship the void, since the absence of suffering has no value for an inexistent being. You're not going to be in some better/more satisfied state due to the lack of harms. In view of this, non-existence has no value/disvalue. What one does with their life, therefore, becomes a highly individualised affair that differs from person-to-person and what action/emotion brings them happiness when they exist. Lastly, I wouldn't say there's something "wrong" with you. I am not a fan of blind optimism. All I would say is that, considering that value only lies in existence, I think that it can be rational to try our best to discover a source of joy that can provide us happiness for as long as possible instead of seeking cessation which is necessarily limited in its capacity to provide fulfilment. — DA671
You do enjoy life. Now it may not be roses and "the best", but you do, because you live. You actually do enjoy to some extent talking to other people. Making your voice known. People who really don't enjoy life at all don't talk. They don't write. They hate and despise everything about their very existence. You would loath eating, breathing, and doing anything. You obviously do not.
So no, you don't prefer death to living. You still live. You still eat. You still interact. Perhaps you wish life were better than it is. Perhaps you want peace and a release from pain, and confuse that for a desire for death. Many people do. But if you're talking about death as it is, an unromantic end that you won't get any feelings about or be around to experience, no you don't. — Philosophim
So after all, even for you life is preferable to death. Which is normal, after millions or billions of years of evolution have geared our motivations toward survival.
I think death becomes preferable to life when suffering exceeds happiness so much that it beats the survival drive. If the survival drive is strong as usual, this must be a singularly terrible situation but unfortunately it can happen too. — litewave
But this doesn't affect my logic that choosing nothingness is just as meaningful/pointless as seeking happiness and valuing life is. Many people believe that the precious joys of life are worth cherishing instead of focusing on a valueless void. — DA671
That would be wrong to say. I talk to others because, well what else is there? I mentioned the goal was to make life tolerable until the end. Just because I talk to people doesn't mean I enjoy it, I don't hate it either.
I do prefer death to living, to not have to do any of this anymore, but I must live as I have no other option at the moment.
It's like you read nothing I said. — Darkneos
I think that their point is that they do prefer non-existence but they are not a huge fan of the road that leads there. In other words, the find life to be better than an overwhelmingly negative end, but not necessarily more desirable than one that would most probably be peaceful. — DA671
The OP is confused. There is no peace in death. There is nothing. What the OP wants is peace in life. — Philosophim
The OP is confused. There is no peace in death. There is nothing. What the OP wants is peace in life. To get to a moment where they feel peace. You have to live to feel peace. They would prefer a life where they feel peace then a life where they feel pain. Death does not give peace. It gives nothing. There is no chance to find peace. — Philosophim
What you say has merit, but consider this edge case :
A man will be tortured for hours for information he does not have. He will then be killed. Is it reasonable for him to grab at a means to end his consciousness, if he knows all this with certainty ?
Or consider, more typically, a person aware that they are sinking into dementia...Are there states worse than death ? So that death is to be sought ? My position is yes. — Pie
The OP is confused. — Philosophim
The OP needs to deal with their pain. They can one day find peace if they work for it. — Philosophim
7 pages worth. — Amity
[ emphasis added]I was wondering if anyone else thinks similarly or if they have a counter to what I've mentioned. I realize I'm alone, but also I have a hard time discussing this anywhere else because people immediately say you need therapy. I consider that a dodge to my stance on this and a symptom of society's collective fear around death, I mean we can't even talk about it without people thinking there is something "Wrong" with you. — Darkneos
:yawn:Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose a washing machine, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suit on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing gameshows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? — Renton, Trainspotting
:lol: :up:I tend to view death as preferable to life
...perhaps [because] you are doing it wrong? — Banno
Because getting there, as I already stated, is hard and unreliable as things stand — Darkneos
The OP is confused. There is no peace in death. There is nothing. What the OP wants is peace in life. To get to a moment where they feel peace. You have to live to feel peace. They would prefer a life where they feel peace then a life where they feel pain. Death does not give peace. — Philosophim
It's not always about rationalisation; it's about the variegated nature of preferences and perspectives. I am aware of Becker's ideas. Part of the reason why people fear death is because they appreciate the goods of life. These goods could be complex, such as the relationships one has and could lose, to more basic ones, such as death resulting in some sort of horrible black void that takes away the positive state of we were in. I do think that there is a sort of paternalism when it comes to giving people the right to a graceful exit. Personally, I don't think that one's love for life should justify making someone else endure a valueless existence. Toxic positivity is a significant problem. — DA671
The OP is confused. There is no peace in death. There is nothing. What the OP wants is peace in life. To get to a moment where they feel peace. You have to live to feel peace. They would prefer a life where they feel peace then a life where they feel pain. Death does not give peace. It gives nothing. There is no chance to find peace. There is no beating the pain. If you die in pain, its the last thing you will ever feel.
To believe that absence of your existence can be preferable to pain is true in some circumstances. Have all of your limbs cut off, your eyes blown out, your brain half blown to bits and you're surviving purely by modern science? Yeah, pull that plug. It does not sound like those are the circumstances of the OP. It sounds like someone who is in pain, and instead of dealing with that pain, looks to invent some fantasy to avoid the work needed to make the pain go away. The OP needs to deal with their pain. They can one day find peace if they work for it. They will not if they keep sticking to this romantic fantasy of death. — Philosophim
It’s hard and unreliable to kill yourself? I really can’t see how that’s true, but OK.
As for the survival instinct — yes, true. But supposedly you long for death. If the drive to continue living is greater— then you really don’t want it. If you did you’d be dead already— provided that there are means to do so and, as I already mentioned, there are plenty of ways to do so.
People who consider suicide very often don’t truly want to die — they’re either without meaning and joy or are clinically depressed.
Do you consider yourself depressed? It sounds that way to me. In which case: there are ways out. — Xtrix
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