• TiredThinker
    497
    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/27/monkeypox-who-recommends-gay-bisexual-men-limit-sexual-partners-to-reduce-spread.html

    I know in the 80s when HIV was frequently diagnosed within the gay community some attributed it to homosexuality or what they perceived as deviant behavior. So naturally it created a stigma even though clearly HIV isn't strictly something gay people can get.

    These days I don't think there is nearly the stigma with gay people there once was, but I'm not sure what to make of this article. 95% of all Monkeypox cases are among gay or bisexual males? I don't imagine that group even constitutes much more than 6% of the population. How much promiscuity are we talking here? Lol. And what stigma might this new (to the U.S.) virus create towards the gay community?
  • Hanover
    8.5k
    I didn't read the article as being a political statement one way or the other about gay people, but just a statement of what the data shows and a proposed remedy.
  • Agent Smith
    6.2k
    To say that infectious illnesses have something to do with sexual habits i.e. to claim a correlation between them we have to demonstrate how transmission is facilitated by certain methods of coitus and that's precisely what we're in the dark about. En garde!
  • unenlightened
    6.8k
    we have to demonstrate how transmission is facilitated by certain methods of coitus and that's precisely what we're in the dark about.Agent Smith

    No we don't because no we ain't. Vaginas are more resilient than arses and better lubricated. Arses tear and bleed during sex and this provides the gateway for transmissiion via the exchange of bodily fluids. The correlation is thus directly observed and the explanation is already well known.

    It's unfortunate, but gay sex is medically more risky than straight sex, apart from the dread disease of pregnancy, for which there is no known legal cure.
  • Agent Smith
    6.2k
    No we don't because no we ain't. Vaginas are more resilient than arses and better lubricated. Arses tear and bleed during sex and this provides the gateway for transmissiion via the exchange of bodily fluids. The correlation is thus directly observed and the explanation is already well known.

    It's unfortunate, but gay sex is medically more risky than straight sex, apart from the dread disease of pregnancy, for which there is no known legal cure.
    unenlightened

    You gotta point there, but it may not be as simple as increased chances of anal/rectal abrasions, lacerations, etc. that have been found in those engaged in sodomy that have been identified as easier routes of transmission. To a virus, the monkeypox is one, intact skin is no barrier and so, in a sense, we can't really say that traumatic anorectal injuries are putative channels of infection. Do you see what I mean? It doesn't make any difference at all, oui monsieur?
  • Hanover
    8.5k
    Since we know that the male gay community contracts monkeypox at rates greatly exceeding the straight community, and you reject the hypothesis that it has to do with the differing ways the two groups have sex, what do you propose the cause is? Is it that monkeypoxes prefer gay bars or just find the company of gay men more fulfilling?
  • Hanover
    8.5k
    And to add to this, the pox are typically located in and around the genitalia, anus, and into the rectum. https://www.yahoo.com/news/er-doctor-says-hes-sick-120000516.html
  • unenlightened
    6.8k
    No. You are trying to make reality fit your moral qualms, when it patently does not fit them. It is largely a gay plague unfortunately, and it would be a really good idea to offer smallpox jabs to gays and advise them to curtail their promiscuity and keep contact details until the wretched thing is eliminated. If life was fair there would be a child-molester and rapist plague, but life isn't fair, and only the religious have to think it is, with the obvious bigoted result of blaming the victim.
  • Bitter Crank
    10.9k
    Who gets sick with what is often a matter of contingency or chance. Infectious diseases like chickenpox, measles, polio, HIV, syphilis, gonorrhea, tuberculosis, E. coli, staphylococcus aureus, covid 19, norovirus, et al are relatively easy to transmit. Being in the right place at the right time MAY result in a transmission and consequent illness -- or it may not.

    Had HIV landed in a different European and American group--straight swingers--the history of the disease would have been different, more like its African pattern.

    But it didn't. It landed in the gay European and American population where gay men were having large numbers of sex partners. Even within the group of properly promiscuous gay men there were differences in sex practices that affected the pattern of transmission. Monkeypox also landed in the not particularly celibate American gay population.

    Chance and contingency isn't everything, however.

    Monkeypox is not a new disease (unlike HIV in 1981). There are vaccines and antiviral drugs that are effective. The federal public health response to Monkeypox was sluggish, despite clear information from European countries that the virus could spread rapidly in the gay male population. The CDC and state public health agencies did not act immediately when reports of the first Mpox cases appeared in the early part of summer.

    Fast response is crucial when dealing with easily transmitted infectious diseases. If the responsible authorities dither and delay, infections will spread and by the time there are thousands of cases, control (let alone elimination) becomes nigh unto impossible.
  • TiredThinker
    497
    They were slow with Covid-19 too. I would think they'd learn better preparation, but many experts really downplayed monkeypox, and now it's an issue.
  • Bitter Crank
    10.9k
    My default assumption is that the government public health employees at the federal, state, and county levels are reasonably competent. However competent they are, the bureaucracy in which they work seems to dampen their capacity for swift and strategic action. Not to pick on government employees exclusively: It's difficult to act strategically, swiftly, and effectively again and again, whether one works for a corporation or a government agency.

    Covid was brand new; there was some excuse for dithering, AIDS was brand new; again, some excuse for dithering. Monkeypox, a relative of smallpox, is not new, and the means are at hand to vaccinate and treat. Granted, we hadn't kept a stockpile of the meds because we hadn't seen an outbreak of monkeypox here before.

    However: An outbreak of contagious disease leaves one very little time to respond before "the cat is the out of the bag". Compare the flood in Kentucky with Katrina in New Orleans: In KY, the response began immediately. In NOLA, the response was sluggish, and things got worse rapidly. Same thing with Monkeypox.
  • Varde
    309
    Thinking about having gay sex recently, changed my mind after reading this thread. Should I? Might I contract monkeypox? If truth was the determiner of this fact about a gay plague, wouldn't that be a false interdiction of chance where it(monkeypox) must be contracted and then passed on? Is it the sexual event that spurs it, or why it spread originally? Do penises and arses create it, or, well, do gay monkeys?

    What I'm trying to say is monkeypox isn't because of gay sex, but gay sex is real dirty and can be easily contracted during intercourse. The only truthful review of such post that gays may contract monkeypox easier, but it isn't to say gay sex is the proprietor, that's false. Be careful if you are a monkey and are going to have gay sex.
  • Agent Smith
    6.2k


    I stand corrected. In my humble opinion, one of the worst things anyone could do is refuse to accept that there's a problem for it delays the search/discovery of solutions.

    That said you two might wanna look into the statistics of anal sex; someone in another thread claimed that it's more common among heterosexuals than homosexuals. Feels relevant, dunno!
  • Hanover
    8.5k
    That said you two might wanna look into the statistics of anal sex; someone in another thread claimed that it's more common among heterosexuals than homosexuals.Agent Smith

    Not sure what the stats show. I'd think hetero anal sex would occur more often in established relationships (and possibly monogamous) as that seems a bit adventurous for a casual hook up, but what does a middle aged suburbanite like me truly know of such things?

    What I do know is that HIV and now monkeypox spread among gays at the fastest rate, but I do know heteros got HIV at higher rates in Sub-Saharan Africa. I'd imagine Sub-Saharan sexual activity has it's idiosyncrasies as well, so not sure why their experience was so different than Peoria.
  • Agent Smith
    6.2k
    All that I can say is that, absit iniuria, homosexuals seem to be the chink our armor against certain, not all, infections. I hope I don't ruffle any feathers in stating what appears to be a fact.

    That said, homosexuality just doesn't revolve around (anal) sex, it's a bona fide culture onto itself, complex to boot and we maybe guilty of the fallacy of oversimplifed cause.
  • Bitter Crank
    10.9k
    Anal intercourse more common among straights than gays? Not likely. 80% of gay men report anal intercourse while about a third of straights report anal intercourse. And the third of heterosexuals reporting anal intercourse ay not be your typical couple in Peoria or suburban Atlanta:

    According to the NIH:

    Previous research has shown that HAI is associated with a variety of risky behaviors, including drug use (5–7), multiple partners (6, 8–10), concurrent partners (8), and exchange sex (6–8, 11), suggesting that people who engage in HAI are in a higher risk population for acquisition of HIV and sexually transmitted infections (STI). This is supported by studies that also show a higher prevalence of STIs among those who engage in HAI (12). Additionally, condom use is uncommon during HAI, with some studies indicating that condom use during HAI is less common than condom use during vaginal sex (13, 14).

    Is it the sexual event that spurs it, or why it spread originally? Do penises and arses create it, or, well, do gay monkeys?Varde

    The same question came up in relation to AIDS in the 1980s: does anal intercourse produce the virus? The answer is absolutely not.

    Why does anal sex transmit HIV and Monkeypox more efficiently than oral or vaginal intercourse? It has to do with the details of different organs and how viruses are shed and transmitted. You can look it up.

    Monkeypox is related to the Variola virus that causes smallpox. Smallpox had a fatality rate of around 30%; Monkeypox is rarely fatal (but still pretty unpleasant). Smallpox and Monkeypox are NOT related to chickenpox (herpes zoster). Smallpox is an ancient disease which killed many millions of people. Monkeypox was discovered in 1958. Rodents and monkeys may both be an anima reservoir of the virus. The virus spread to humans through butchering monkeys (which are eaten in parts of Africa).
  • Bitter Crank
    10.9k
    ng about having gay sex recentlyVarde

    Should you have anal intercourse? Sure. Will you get Monkeypox as a result? That depends on what circles you travel in. If you plug into the circle of, say New York gays who are most sexually active, your chances are much higher of getting infected. If you start with the boy next door in rural Georgia, your chances are much much smaller. It is considered good manners to ask if it is OK first.

    Why are so many gay men in New York infected with Monkeypox? Because groups (like gym rats or theater workers) tend to mix among themselves. Eventually infectious diseases spread widely, erasing group boundaries. AIDS landed among a group of fairly affluent, similarly employed gay men in New York--like artists, musicians, writers, actors, etc. They went to the same watering holes and had sex with each other.
  • Bitter Crank
    10.9k
    News for the worried-well OR well-they-should-be-worried from the New York Times:
  • Agent Smith
    6.2k
    Anal intercourse more common among straights than gays? Not likely. 80% of gay men report anal intercourse while about a third of straights report anal intercourse. And the third of heterosexuals reporting anal intercourse ay not be your typical couple in Peoria or suburban Atlanta:Bitter Crank

    I stand corrected but lament the fact.
  • Bitter Crank
    10.9k
    I stand corrected but lament the fact.Agent Smith

    Oh, do you regret not living in Peoria?
  • Agent Smith
    6.2k
    Oh, do you regret not living in Peoria?Bitter Crank

    Now that you mention it, I quite do (regret not living Peoria)!
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