the more I look into ancient Greek culture and philosophy and literature the grosser it becomes. — Moses

For example?

Pervasive ableism and classism as I said before. Deeply entrenched in the culture and in their lit. I'm not your teacher, Jackson, go read the Odyssey or the Iliad or Plato or Aristotle.

EDIT: also forgot to mention sexual immorality with young boys.

I know more about Greeks than you. But, you refuse discussion, so we are done.

my response is commensurate on the effort that you give. so far you've given me nothing. the illiad and the odyssey were picked out by nietzsche as examples of "master morality" that idolizes nobility and the able-bodied and dismisses the weak. it just idolizes those who are strong and beautiful and denigrates those who aren't. the greeks held in poor regard those who had trouble speaking, they were considered cursed by the gods. diogenes slightly improves on this view by just calling the disabled deficient.

the odyssey is just about the great becoming greater. honor seeking. the poor were typically considered low.

more: Plato's doctrine of forms is inherently ableist in that it posits a single, perfect able-bodied standard of beauty. aristotle believed disabled infants should be left to die. what about the movie '300'? the noble fit western warriors lost and civilization collapsed because a disabled guy didn't know his place.

It's as well for that Islam preserved the classical texts Christianity destroyed so that they could become "gateway philosophies". Doubtless that was God's plan all along, to plunge us into the good, cleansing middle ages, and then bring us out of that darkness.

Yes, to be plunged into the dark ages was a very good thing. The problem is that when the principles of a culture are untrue, corrupted by falsity, or other forms of vice, and philosophers point out these problems, no one really listens. That's what happens in this forum, when I point out the falsities which are currently abundant in mathematics and physics. People here say, the principles serve their purposes, so unless I have something better to offer, forget about criticizing those conventions. But since the principles serve their purposes, no one is inclined to look for better ones. Therefore it is necessary to first recognize the principles as bad, and destroy the bad principles, thereby providing the necessary conditions for the development of better ones. The phoenix rises from the ashes.

It's as well for ↪Dermot Griffin that Islam preserved the classical texts Christianity destroyed so that they could become "gateway philosophies". Doubtless that was God's plan all along, to plunge us into the good, cleansing middle ages, and then bring us out of that darkness. — Banno

Yes, but perhaps the Eastern Church, like the Eastern Roman Empire, kept some of them too for a time. I'm not sure. But the Latin Church never like those guys anyhow, and probably was happier to deal with Islam than heretical Christians.

dark ages — Metaphysician Undercover

Any good reason why "it" was called "the dark ages"?

Wikipedia says that this was a period of cultural, intellectual and economic decline in Europe and surely because of that civilization as we know it was delayed by, what?, a coupla friggin centuries.

However, I'd like to compare morbidity and mortality statistics, adjusted for confounding factors, of the so-called dark ages with those of other ages. It matters in my humble opinion, oui? Quite possibly the dark ages were a period of relative peace. Dunno!

That's what happens in this forum, when I point out the falsities which are currently abundant in mathematics and physics. People here say, the principles serve their purposes, so unless I have something better to offer, forget about criticizing those conventions. But since the principles serve their purposes, no one is inclined to look for better ones. Therefore it is necessary to first recognize the principles as bad, and destroy the bad principles, thereby providing the necessary conditions for the development of better ones. The phoenix rises from the ashes. — Metaphysician Undercover

What does destroying a bad principle look like? I understand skepticism. I get the idea that we live in our time of ideas. But what does destroying a bad principle look like?

It looks like forgetting something.