• Agent Smith
    4.4k
    Why did Jews NOT lose their faith in a (benevolent) God?

    Horrific atrocities were committed against the Jewish community in Europe between 1939 and 1945 (WW2) by Nazi Germany.

    People have become atheists for much less.

    It's a sensitive topic and I mean no disrespect to anyone. If the post is offensive (to anyone), my humble apologies; it is not intended to be so.
  • Moses
    58
    AFAIK Jews often don't describe God as benevolent, at least to the same extent that Christians often do. In the OT he can be quite brutal and even states that he will happily destroy the Israelites if they deviate from his commands and he does this time and time again. Jews have had terror wrought on them from many empires: Assyria, Babylon, etc. Also consider that Jews view the soul as immortal so death is not the end.
  • 180 Proof
    8.4k

    But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? — Job 2:10, KJV
    :sweat: Amor fati.
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    The Jews suffered, yes, not by the hands of god, but by the hands of man. Homo homini lupus. :groan:

    Life, aah life, it is its own worst enemy! We could do better, right/wrong?
  • Clarky
    9.1k


    The forum guidelines say "Don't start a new discussion unless you are...Capable of writing a decent title that accurately and concisely describes the content of your OP.
  • 180 Proof
    8.4k
    "The God of Abraham" has always allowed His children to suffer at each other's hands; thus, His absolute culpability in the cosmic shitshow. "Amen."
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    allowed180 Proof

    Also commanded...crimes against humanity! :groan:

    Then, either God exists not or God is evil! :sad:
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    he will happily destroy the Israelites — Moses

    :sad:
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    I edited the title. Thanks for the heads up!
  • Hillary
    1.9k
    The holocaust could even be considered a stimulus for belief, paradoxically as it may sound. The German "philosophy" was a pretty weird mixture of an evolutionary law of the strongest (or fittest) approach, german and nordic mythology, Italian fascism, and even Nietzsche's Übermensch was opportunistically pulled in. Add the fact that tanks were blessed with Christian water, and it is easily seen that the Germans, or at least "die Partei Bonze" could be considered lost souls, and Jews who could forgive the Germans for their banality of evil should be regarded as being humans worthy a firm handshake of Yahweh.
  • 180 Proof
    8.4k

    The only deity consistent with a world (it purportedly created and sustains) ravaged by natural disasters, man-made catastrophes & self-inflicted interpersonal suffering is either a Sadist or a fiction – neither of which are worthy of worship.180 Proof
    Just sayin ... :smirk:
  • Moses
    58
    :sad:


    Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you [if you do not follow his ways]. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess. (Deut. 28:63)

    I was actually wrong here. Later we have:

    Ezekiel 18:23
    New International Version
    23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

    Turns out second translation overrides the first and it comes down to translational issues from the original Hebrew.

    is either a Sadist or a fiction180 Proof

    Ezekiel 18:23
    New International Version
    23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
  • Tom Storm
    4k
    Why did Jews NOT lose their faith in a (benevolent) God?

    Horrific atrocities were committed against the Jewish community in Europe between 1939 and 1945 (WW2) by Nazi Germany.
    Agent Smith

    Very many did lose their faith and the enormous cultural or secular Jewish diaspora is, in part, testament to this.
  • Hillary
    1.9k
    The only deity consistent with a world (it purportedly created and sustains) ravaged by natural disasters, man-made catastrophes & self-inflicted interpersonal suffering is either a Sadist or a fiction – neither of which are worthy of worship.180 Proof

    Total BS! The only eternal deities in an eternal non-physical heaven consistent with the ways of the material universe, are the eternal non-physical deities of which all universal lives are temporary material copies, eternally recurring. As simple as that. Your divine counterpart laughs atya... :lol:
  • Hillary
    1.9k
    Very many did lose their faith and the enormous cultural or secular Jewish diaspora is, in part, testament to this.Tom Storm

    Don't overdo it...
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    The only deity consistent with a world (it purportedly created and sustains) ravaged by natural disasters, man-made catastrophes & self-inflicted interpersonal suffering is either a Sadist or a fiction – neither of which are worthy of worship.180 Proof

    :up: Makes sense but I may have commited the false dichotomy fallacy, no? Sadist OR Fiction OR... (say) Divine Retribution for collective sins OR...possibilites we haven't conisdered. An attempt to save the phenomena (keep a benevolent, all-powerful, all-knowing god intact).

    I'm stoked as it were that (divine) sadism is indistinguishable from (divine) nonexistence (sadist or fiction). It seems to have a disturbing implication if we taks into account the fact the Leibniz thought our minds were little gods [re zinloos geweld (senseless violence) & Kantian ethics (immorality is a contradiction)]

    What sayesr thou?

    The points you raised reminds me of the maxim a theory that explains everything explains nothing. I dunno!

    Very many did lose their faith and the enormous cultural or secular Jewish diaspora is, in part, testament to this.Tom Storm

    I see. The mission is not to restore the faith of the Jews in God but in humanity. We all know we're deeply flawed beings, piety is a struggle against our nature. Like I told my son, even if you can't be good, do try. You get points for trying!

    Don't overdo it...Hillary

    Aurea mediocritas, nec quid nimis!

    Thank you all for your interesting posts! Good day!
  • Jackson
    938
    Why did Jews NOT lose their faith in a (benevolent) God?Agent Smith

    It is a mystery to me why anyone believes in a benevolent God.
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    It is a mystery to me why anyone believes in a benevolent GodJackson

    I have my fair share of problems and I do pray for help. No divine grace has come my way. I tell myself "He must have more important issues to deal with (He's busy)" rather than "God probably doesn't exist."

    My dilemma: Psychosis (theism) or Suffering (atheism). Sic vita est. Well, at least I have choices! :grin:
  • Jackson
    938
    Psychosis (theism) or Suffering (atheism).Agent Smith

    Please explain. Atheism causes suffering?
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    Please explain. Atheism causes suffering?Jackson

    (No) help is on its way! I'm on my own!
  • Jackson
    938
    (No) help is on its way! I'm on my own!Agent Smith

    ok
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    Shutter Island (2010) [The protagonist, played by none other than Leonardo DiCaprio, is lobotomized for (feigned) intractable psychosis]

    I'd rather lose my mind (theism/psychosis) than live with the awful truth (atheism/dystheism)! :chin:
  • 180 Proof
    8.4k
    What sayesr thou?Agent Smith
    As a spinozist, I take a dim view of Leibniz's (metaphysical) superstitions.

    It is a mystery to me why anyone believes in a benevolent God.Jackson
    :up: :up:

    I'd rather lose my mind (theism/psychosis) than live with the awful truth (atheism/dystheism)!Agent Smith
    Another philosophical suicide (aka "pussy"). Better a slave " :pray: " than a fugitive, is that it, Smith?

    Holy psychoceramics! :scream:
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    As a spinozist, I take a dim view of Leibniz's (metaphysical) superstitions.180 Proof

    :ok: How would you describe Leibniz? Too...

    Another philosophical suicide (aka "pussy"). Better a slave " :pray: " than a fugitive, is that it, Smith?180 Proof

    :grin: When you put it that way, it's quite embarrassing to go the Deputy U.S. Marshal Edward "Teddy" Daniels (Shutter Island) way. However, if we, once in a while, give up the manliness fetish all males "suffer" from, maybe we can gain a deeper insight into such matters? What say you?
  • 180 Proof
    8.4k
    How would you describe Leibniz?Agent Smith
    Read Candide ...

    What say you?
  • Hillary
    1.9k
    It is a mystery to me why anyone believes in a benevolent God.Jackson

    That's because of the western conception of god or the scientific religion ruling supreme. Richard Dawkins and the likes are revolting against gods because their incapacity to understand and by revolting they show their obedience to science, trying to get the respect of that of the genius physicist they always so aspired to be but lack the genius for.
  • Noble Dust
    5.5k


    Candide might be the worst novel I read in college. :sweat:

    Although I did love the "One must tend one's own garden" sentiment at the end.
  • Hillary
    1.9k
    Please explain. Atheism causes suffering?Jackson

    A lot!
  • Agent Smith
    4.4k
    I suppose what I'm actually talking about is the famous problem of evil.
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