The aesthetic experience

skyblack

Thought of jotting down some notes in light of the recent exchanges.

All our pursuits in life are essentially a pursuit for fulfillment, for happiness. In some extreme cases as in loonies, if they pursue unhappiness, naturally, it is still a pursuit of happiness.

This process of converting all thoughts, emotions, feelings, experiences, stimuli, knowledge, ideas into a mechanical system, a pattern, for purposes of maximizing fulfillment, seems to be a mindless habit/conditioning in which man is functioning.

Evidently, and perhaps sadly, the above process also affects those that are perhaps fortunate enough to have aesthetic sensibilities.

One may ask why use the word “fortunate” when referencing to the aesthetic? Well that’s simple. Aesthetic sensibility and contemplation is perhaps the only means that the layman [short of a whole-man] has, to be free [even if temporarily] from this horror that he/she calls living. When we say “only means”, we are excluding the self-forgetfulness [ that comes from the use of drugs, alcohol, sex, religion, pursuit of knowledge, pursuit of wealth, affiliations, and the numerous egoic pursuits we have devised to escape from the inherent pessimism that affects all ], as all of them have side-effects. Some, more so than others. Of course, a person who does not have an aesthetic sensibility or has never been able to successfully engage in such a contemplation, will have no idea about its potency. But upon due consideration and experience one will find, it is perhaps the most addictive and potent drug on the planet,

A point to note here, OP isn’t getting into the nitty gritty of what the elements are, the requirements for resonance, and what constitutes a correct aesthetic experience, as that will flow into several pages, but will now come back to the point made earlier and that is, a mechanically patterned endeavor to keep replicating the aesthetic experience, in one’s egoic pursuit for fulfillment, is not the true aesthetic experience, and suffers from all the side-effects [ that we all know so well], the rest of our pursuits have.

In the naive view, the end of aesthetic contemplation is delight, to which contemplation is but a means; and the contemplation is justified by the end to which it leads. But where no such dualism of the ends and the means is recognized, there is only a single self-justifying process of contemplation, which represents a progressive appreciation of the aesthetic object. The purpose is thus present throughout the process or is immanent in it; and, if we look upon its culminating stage as the result, it is because that stage is marked by repose. The value of art accordingly consists not in providing mere delight for us, but in the totality of experience for which aesthetic contemplation stands. The feeling of pleasure is, no doubt, there, but only as an aspect of that experience.

Aesthetic valuation is an active process of which delight is only a characteristic feature. It is therefore wrong to think that art exists for our delectation. Might be good to "get off the horse". The contemplation of a work of art leads to an attitude of mind which is quite impersonal. As a consequence of such self-forgetfulness, the contemplation of art yields a kind of spontaneous or accidental joy. It is certainly not something you “cultivate” and if you are cultivating what you think to be an aesthetic experience, most likely it is a product of your existing neurosis.

In a following post I may go into the nature of the aesthetic experience and its limitations.

Jackson

The value of art accordingly consists not in providing mere delight for us, but in the totality of experience for which aesthetic contemplation stands. The feeling of pleasure is, no doubt, there, but only as an aspect of that experience. — skyblack

Agree with that.

T Clark

Aesthetic sensibility and contemplation is perhaps the only means that the layman [short of a whole-man] has, to be free [even if temporarily] from this horror that he/she calls living. When we say “only means”, we are excluding the self-forgetfulness [ that comes from the use of drugs, alcohol, sex, religion, pursuit of knowledge, pursuit of wealth, affiliations, and the numerous egoic pursuits we have devised to escape from the inherent pessimism that affects all ], asall of them have side-effects. — skyblack

There are a lot of people here on the forum who think it is self-evident that everyone lives a life as described by Thoreau - full of quiet desperation. I keep having to tell them that it isn't true for all of us. It's not true of me and others here and in the world in general. Some of the things you have listed as ways of forgetting - sex, knowledge, and friendship (what you call affiliations) in particular - are not that at all. They can be a necessary part of a full satisfying life. Appreciation of music, visual art, literature, movies, and television can also belong in that group. And philosophy. Aesthetics is not some special, wonderful way of escaping our despair. It is, as are the other members of the group I've described, a way of increasing our self-awareness.

what constitutes a correct aesthetic experience — skyblack

I'm looking forward to finding out if I am doing it correctly.

skyblack

↪T Clark

I'm looking forward to finding out if I am doing it correctly. — T Clark

During my initial days in this forum, when you had come to me with your baits, i had told you, it is not my job to educate you or anyone else.Nothing has changed in that sentiment.

There are a lot of people here on the forum who think it is self-evident that everyone lives a life as described by Thoreau - full of quiet desperation. I keep having to tell them that it isn't true for all of us. It's not true of me and others here and in the world in general. Some of the things you have listed as ways of forgetting - sex, knowledge, and friendship (what you call affiliations) in particular - are not that at all. They can be a necessary part of a full satisfying life. Appreciation of music, visual art, literature, movies, and television can also belong in that group. And philosophy. Aesthetics is not some special, wonderful way of escaping our despair. It is, as are the other members of the group I've described, a way of increasing our self-awareness. — T Clark

As for the silliness of the first paragraph in your post, my attitude towards the usage of my time and energy, in responding to objections (provided it stems from genuine inquiry, NA in your case), is pretty well documented. So you won't get any rebuttals. All i will say is, carry on.

T Clark

During my initial days in this forum, when you had come to me with your baits, i had told you, it is not my job to educate you or anyone else.Nothing has changed in that sentiment.

As for the silliness of the first paragraph in your post, my attitude towards the usage of my time and energy, in responding to objections (provided it stems from genuine inquiry, NA in your case), is pretty well documented. So you won't get any rebuttals. All i will say is, carry on. — skyblack

So, what you're saying is that you don't have a good response to my respectful and responsive comment so you'll ignore it.

skyblack

↪T Clark

So, what you're saying is that you don't have a good response to my respectful and responsive comment so you'll ignore it. — T Clark

That bait may work on amateurs, but people better than you have tired to glean from me.So far they have been unsuccessful. An absence of deception, is a pre-requisite for any genuine, sincere, and serious inquiry, all of which NA in your case.

T Clark

That bait may work on amateurs, but better people than you have tired to glean from me.So far they have been unsuccessful. An absence of deception, is a pre-requisite for any genuine, sincere, and serious inquiry, all of which NA in your case. — skyblack

Again, my comment was sincere and responsive. I believe the things I wrote and they contradict some of what you put in your OP. I don't see how you can consider that baiting. You set out some assumptions for the discussion. I commented that I don't think some of them are valid.

skyblack

Again, my comment was sincere and responsive. I believe the things I wrote and they contradict some of what you put in your OP. I don't see how you can consider that baiting. You set out some assumptions for the discussion. I commented that I don't think some of them are valid. — T Clark

I base my responses (to you) on the history of your conduct, with me as well as with others. I base it on observations.

T Clark

I base my responses (to you) on the history of your conduct, with me as well as with others. I base it on observations. — skyblack

Then your best action would have been to ignore what I wrote, but you wanted to be all snooty and stuff. Just as your best response now will be to ignore this post. I'm curious whether you can do that.

skyblack

↪T Clark

Then your best action would have been to ignore what I wrote, but you wanted to be all snooty and stuff. Just as your best response now will be to ignore this post. I'm curious whether you can do that. — T Clark

My best action is determined by me, not you. I doubt you have a clear understanding of what is best for you and what isn't, let alone someone else.. However, i take you up on your offer and will let you carry on with others. Something i had already offered you in my very first response, but you insisted on your amateurish baits, like you are doing now. So again,carry on.

praxis

what constitutes a correct aesthetic experience
— skyblack

I'm looking forward to finding out if I am doing it correctly. — T Clark

:rofl:

Hanover

So again,carry on. — skyblack

So I read your OP and @T Clark's response and I did find his response fairly accurate in describing my thoughts. I disagree with him somewhat in that I didn't find your attitude just dismissive or even snooty, but more so intentional, reminding one of an aspiring cult leader.

You solicit the despondent with vague descriptions of existential doubt, you offer a solution you vaguely reference as aestheticism, and you refuse to explain what it is, wanting us to believe you possess this mysterious answer.

So, either tell us your secret or stop telling us you have one.

skyblack

So I read your OP and T Clark's response and I did find his response fairly accurate in describing my thoughts. I disagree with him somewhat in that I didn't find your attitude just dismissive or even snooty, but more so intentional, reminding one of an aspiring cult leader.

You solicit the despondent with vague descriptions of existential doubt, you offer a solution you vaguely reference as aestheticism, and you refuse to explain what it is, wanting us to believe you possess this mysterious answer.

So, either tell us your secret or stop telling us you have one. — Hanover

Your thoughts, or your opinions, are of no concern to me. As to "soliciting"....thanks for the chuckle. Let me direct you to my relatively older post here , as highlighted by Nils Loc,. which will perhaps refresh your memory of what i think of certain kind people. I am afraid,you have over valued the worth/importance of the "us" in your last sentence.Since the "us" is predominantly the "certain kind of people" i am pointing to, well, you would understand what i am trying to say, yes?

Hanover

↪skyblack

You can hardly expect to start a thread to discuss your brand of the aesthetic experience and then refuse to explain it and expect it remain open.

The aesthetic experience

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