I am kind of leaning toward you operating at an oxygen deficient level currently. Don't write self help books eh. Maybe read a few, talk to a counsellor. Your responses strongly imply a deep depression state. — Book273

Tell me, @Book273, when was the last time you spoke the truth while feeling good about the world? Oh, yeah, right. You must only be thinking of telling selective truth -- one that awards your vanity, I suppose?

Stop taking cheap shots. Tell me why my post disturbs you -- not why my post disturbs me. My post doesn't disturb me, telling those bullet points in a public forum does not disturb me.

While it may be true that being poor in the country is less stressful than the city, at least it sounds intuitive true, you still sight the virtues of being poor. Listen to the hyper wealthy talk casually about poverty, and you will find exactly that kind of dismissiveness. Jeff Bezos and his ilk are especially flippant about what is in fact a living nightmare, being poor that is.
However, putting aside how this kind of thinking plays into the hands of a wealthy person's rationalization, my happiest days were when I was, well, free of the bondage of possessions. — Constance

Half right Constance. It is a myth that the rural poor are happier. In a world where entertainment does not run cheap, the only ones happy and poor are monks and nuns.

But yes, that's a zero sum game. Which is also true today. People argue that it's no longer true. But they fail to see the big picture. It's not just satisfying the basic needs of a person. — L'éléphant

Just curious, what is the "big picture"?

Try harder. That's a cheap shot. — L'éléphant

Thinking a lower interest rate on a marked up vehicle is advantageous exhibits a misunderstanding of the auto market. I'd rather buy a depreciated car for 8k at 6% interest then one that's getting ready to lose 80% of it's value at 2%.

It wasn't intended as a "cheap shot" we've all been under valued at one time or another. But, the chronically underpaid have more to worry about and appreciate a different spectrum of life as to suggest longing for a michelin rated dinner isn't on the radar. It sounds like a poor rich person. Correct me as needed.

I mean I'm low income, but I don't think i'm screwed. I wonder why.

What an OP.

I suppose there are people who genuinely believe that people need to be taught about the advantages of being wealthy.

Just curious, what is the "big picture"? — Agent Smith

Utopian world, I guess?

Utopian world, I guess? — L'éléphant

:up: An noble objective, no doubt but what's our strategy, economically?

:up: An noble objective, no doubt but what's our strategy, economically? — Agent Smith

Give me a sec, I'll launch my spreadsheet for the calculation per capita of the basic needs first, then entertainment second, then ability to enjoy luxury, travel, and leisure for everyone. :meh:

Give me a sec, I'll launch my spreadsheet for the calculation per capita of the basic needs first, then entertainment second, then ability to enjoy luxury, travel, and leisure for everyone — L'éléphant

:grin: Gotcha!

Tell me why my post disturbs you — L'éléphant

Your post reads as a long winded whine, generalized in an attempt to capture everyone who is poor and wrap them in your description. By removing any possibility of improvement and listing all the reasons the poor are forever screwed, as per L'elephant, It reads as a motivational speech for suicide among the poor. Well done; you have damned an entire economic class with your limitations.

Worth noting, you are posting stuff online, so how poor are you really? Maybe your plan is to convince the poor of the value in ending their life of meaningless suffering. One never knows eh.

you're confusing low income with trailer trash

↪L'éléphant
you're confusing low income with trailer trash — MAYAEL

Am I? How so?

You listed characteristic traits of what's called trailer trash and not characteristic traits of people that just don't make much money. Probably because it's hard to generalize people based off of how much money they have because everybody's different so what we tend to do is group people according to attitude and behaviors and so you are acting as if trailer trash is the only social grouping of low-income people there is when that's not the case.

@L'éléphant You're Screwed If You're Low Income

Yes, of course. The screwedness of the poor is what keeps those who are not low income YET working, striving, and persevering. It's essential to have some unemployed and low-income workers in the economy to serve as a reserve and a warning, A reserve in that the non-employed can start working when there is a big demand for unskilled labor (not so much these days). As a warning for compliant unorganized workers to stay that way. Step too far out of line and you'll end up being one of the poor scum we all know and loathe. You can be replaced, if not by an unemployed person, then a robot. So just shut up and get back to work!

It's helpful to have a few homeless, hungry, and addicted people living in misery on the streets as a further reminder of how arbeit macht frei, or at least keeps workers out of the gutter. The working poor have lives that are better than the broke homeless.

Lots of people are devoted to upward mobility. So focused on that as they are, they have not noticed that downward mobility is a real possibility, even a likelihood in some situations. "So you think you've reached bottom? Oh no, there's a bottom below! There's a low below the low you know, you can't imagine how far you can go


DOWN..."

By means of inflation and stagnant wages over several decades, American workers have experienced downward mobility. Generally they don't want to acknowledge it.

Go ahead and acknowledge it. Admit it: you've been had by your capitalist employers. The sons of bitches ripped you off. They don't care about you. You are free insofar as you are profitable.

you are acting as if trailer trash is the only social grouping of low-income people there is when that's not the case. — MAYAEL

I looked up the definition of trailer trash. Perhaps, you are correct. My OP is directed towards those with jobs, but earning at poverty level or below that.

It's essential to have some unemployed and low-income workers in the economy to serve as a reserve and a warning, A reserve in that the non-employed can start working when there is a big demand for unskilled labor (not so much these days). — Bitter Crank

True that.

Go ahead and acknowledge it. Admit it: you've been had by your capitalist employers. — Bitter Crank

Many people can't. There's just too much worship of billionaires and multi-millionaires. Notice that you see rationale here and there defending the accumulation of wealth by the very few, while at the same time, berating the low income people for being...well..low income. lol.

Many actually live vicariously -- watching the lives of the rich and themselves feeling as if they've own the material possessions. It's pathetic when the number one past time of people is watching the everyday lives of the rich.

I wonder what happens when the average people just stop caring about those segment of society and start living their lives as it is.

Wats your net worth?

I mean I'm low income, but I don't think i'm screwed. I wonder why. — john27

(Because screws are very expensive?)

Everyone has their cross to bear. A rich man can be just as screwed and unhappy as a poor man.

If it's organic based, in America you are screwed if you are poor, but can get over the unhappy if you are rich. If you are rich, you can afford therapy and drugs, if you are poor, you can't. Also, in a more severe situation, you can afford guns and ammunition if you are rich, but can't if you are poor. In certain jurisdictions, I imagine, they hand out handguns and bullets in soup kitchens along with essential food items, such as rolls of toilet paper, because "bearing an arm" is not only a privilege, but also a right of every American citizen.

One reason for the rich-poor gap, the income divide, is that we're paying for the wrong things. Why do we give to charity? Why are CEOs paid huge salaries?

Everyone has their cross to bear. A rich man can be just as screwed and unhappy as a poor man. — god must be atheist

That's what I thought as well. I don't think wellbeing is correlated to your enviroment. At least that's my experience.

we are fed by the celebrity phenomenon that rewards make you happy, and the richer you are, the bigger the reward.

Money is certainly rewarding.

But only to a point.

Recent research has unearthed that we feel elated (temporarily very happy) when we get a reward that is way bigger than expected.

Many instances of human responses can be explained by that:
1. Why a spouse takes a compliment from the other spouse for granted, but when from a stranger, then values it highly.
2. The first heroin hit is the most pleasurable.
3. The first orgasm of your life blows you away.
4. The more money you win and the earlier in your gambling life, the more addicted you get to it.
etc.

What causes unhappiness? I guess the opposite: not meeting expectations. Which includes unexpected disasters in one's own life, such as a loss of a limb or a loss of an iPhone due to theft.

But death we all expect and yet we fear it most of all mishaps in life. I explain that by saying that we expect to live forever, and death is not something we actually believe will happen. Hence, the afterlife myths of many cultures.

Atheism is a new movement, it is born of science, knowledge, and the lack of gambling for survival. Atheism rejects the afterlife (not all; Buddhists, who have no god, therefore they are atheists, believe in reincarnation) because it views it as a stupid idea. Atheists, at their best, call them as they see them. No evidence -- no speculation.

I explain that by saying that we expect to live forever, and death is not something we actually believe will happen. — god must be atheist

Damn. Wise words.

Money is certainly rewarding.

But only to a point. — god must be atheist

I am my own reward, hence I am in a perpetual state of bliss. :cool:

(or so I tell myself.)

(or so I tell myself.) — john27

self-suggested happiness is where it's at. I was for a number of decades grossly overweight. Women looked at me (men too, but that's not of interest to this parable). Because women gave me longer glances than usual, I felt I was very attractive. I felt attractive for twenty years and never got laid. But it did not matter, because I was attractive, according to my delusion, and that made me happy, which is an illusion, just like the mind, which feels the happiness... Yikes.

I am my own reward, hence I am in a perpetual state of bliss — john27

How do you handle the effect of the diminishing return of marginal utility? Or maybe I shouldn't have asked that. Oops. :-)

How do you handle the effect of the diminishing return of marginal utility? — god must be atheist

Self suggested happiness's margin is infinite! Poof?

I felt attractive for twenty years — god must be atheist

Or at the very least, pretty long. Long enough that there seemingly is no diminished return.

I felt attractive for twenty years and never got laid. But it did not matter, because I was attractive, according to my delusion, and that made me happy, which is an illusion, just like the mind, which feels the happiness... Yikes. — god must be atheist

That last phrase was so poetic It compelled me to organize it.

I felt attractive for twenty years.
Never got laid.
It did not matter; I was attractive,
according to my delusion
That made me happy,
Which is an illusion
Just like the mind: which feels the happiness...
Yikes.

Self suggested happiness's margin is infinite! Poof? — john27

I have to apologize for not considering this. I only went on the fact that you said you've been poor. In a way, that's a marginalized stratum of a super-wealthy society... Poof.

5. You don't ever try Michelin star chefs' foods cause you can't afford it. So you miss out on quality service and quality food. Btw, Michelin star chefs do not discriminate against who can and can't afford. Visit their restaurant once every 5 years. — L'éléphant

Ah yes, the so telling indicator of low income in this Millennium in the West: you cannot afford to go and eat at a Michelin star restaurant. But perhaps every 5 years. Mmmm.

I remember the story of Finnish artists of the late 19th Century and early 20th Century having dinners in the most fanciest restaurant in the country and basically each one spending an average workers monthly salary in the meal filled with caviar, champagne and cognac. Back then it was an average workers monthly salary.



Now that would be the equivalent of having a meal of 4 000$ to 5 000$, which is way much more that a full meal costs in any Michelin restaurant. But of course, I'd guess you could blow that amount of money by drinking the most expensive wines, which likely the restaurant has purchased just for your kind of sucker that comes around every once in a while and orders the most expensive they have.

That last phrase was so poetic It compelled me to organize it. — john27

Thank you! Do you do windows as well? Sorry, I mean, Windows.

Are you an editor? Or a kindred poetic soul. I asked Amity that, and she told me to go fuck myself. Or maybe that was to some different expression I expressly expressed.

Come to think of it: poems don't ever get edited. This is a shame and a blessing at the same time. Shame, because there is too much bad poetry; good because may a poem be good or bad, it is still precious and special to its creator.

If a poem gets edited by other than its creator, it is fucked. If a poet asks someone to edit his or her poetry, he or she is fucked, along with the shiny poem s/he rode in on.

I just realized, that I need to clarify this: Your organization I did not view as editing, only as enlightening. Thanks, I appreciated your work and am actually impressed by it. Although that's a covert compliment to myself as well. Oh, well.