• praxis
    4k
    You have no idea about the impact dreams and daydreams have had on the world.TheMadFool

    Unfortunately, letting go has had little impact.

    mind remodeling isn't the same as a body makeover.TheMadFool

    Mind and body are inextricably linked.
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    You have no idea about the impact dreams and daydreams have had on the world.
    — TheMadFool

    Unfortunately, letting go has had little impact.
    praxis

    I was talking about dreaming & daydreaming.

    Mind and body are inextricably linked.praxis

    The core of Buddhism is about letting go. Transhumanism seems to be about grasping, in the form of daydreaming.praxis
  • tim wood
    7.7k
    Transhumanism? But there is and can be only one of me.
  • Olivier5
    2.9k
    As presented here to us, it is a dream, but a particularly odious one, as far as dreams go. Disgusting, in fact.
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    transcending the Darwinian shitshowZugzwang

    :up: Not transcending it; rather steering it.
  • Voidrunner
    5
    The trend is curious how concepts with a flirty or even amorous attitude towards death dominate the so-called naive life-affirming ones. And we don't need to go to dark places of suicide-philosophers, sufficient enough are statements like ,,life can become horrible enough to justify death as a relief‘‘ that picture a remarkable tolerance towards the end of existence.

    We are stunned by and empathetic for thinkers, that postulate life to be intrinsically bad and death intrinsically good, but feel some sort of disgust or arrogance towards those who say vice versa. Maybe it’s because triviality bores those who ,,have chosen a path of enigmatic discovery’’, since most (if not all and not constantly) of us live in the total belief of personal immortality.

    Despite my personal doubts regarding transhumanism, that consider historical experience from the failed ,,homo soveticus’’ project, hence the effectiveness and optimality of the problem-solution path, I do find the movement rather refreshing in terms of daring life-approvement absolutism.
  • Hermeticus
    58
    I think there's a sort of golden rule when it comes to humans and technology: Any technology will be used and abused in a way that wasn't intended.

    Since transhumanism aims at the limits of human beings, there may be limitless potential there. The concept in itself is intriguing to me. With the knowledge of how to adapt an organism, it seems like the obvious next step to bring forth artificial evolutionary change rather than wait on the slow process of biological evolution.

    The great concern remains with my first statement. Generally I am in support of transhumanism - but I have no doubt that somewhere down the line someone would do something awful with it. It doesn't have to be intentional either. We often misjudge the causal effect of our actions.
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    Read Brave New World.unenlightened

    TheMadFool must...grunt...download...grunt...Brave New World...grunt!
  • 180 Proof
    5.6k
    Well, I raised the novel on that other "transhumanism thread" with David Pearce (yours is the very next post). Better late than never I suppose ...
    Both Brave New World's "soma" and (inversely) A Clockwork Orange's "Ludovico Technique" come to mind, but much more invasively and totalitarian.180 Proof
    Improve the Talking Bald Ape? Nah, we don't know enough – won't any time soon, I suspect – to adequately ape a billion years of natural selection with sufficient engineering precision to avoid devolving into civilization-wide, dystopian, Franken-freak show. Synthetic metacognitive agents – I'm placing my bitcoins on that bet instead. :mask:
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    I think there's a sort of golden rule when it comes to humans and technology: Any technology will be used and abused in a way that wasn't intended.

    Since transhumanism aims at the limits of human beings, there may be limitless potential there. The concept in itself is intriguing to me. With the knowledge of how to adapt an organism, it seems like the obvious next step to bring forth artificial evolutionary change rather than wait on the slow process of biological evolution.

    The great concern remains with my first statement. Generally I am in support of transhumanism - but I have no doubt that somewhere down the line someone would do something awful with it. It doesn't have to be intentional either. We often misjudge the causal effect of our actions
    Hermeticus

    There will be byproducts, some beneficial, others harmful beyond imagination. It's impossible to predict what the future holds. What now?
  • Hermeticus
    58
    There will be byproducts, some beneficial, others harmful beyond imagination. It's impossible to predict what the future holds. What now?TheMadFool

    Now we wait until transhumanism lets us predict what the future holds so that we make no further mistakes in the field of transhumanism ;)
  • SoftEdgedWonder
    42
    It's impossible to predict what the future holds. What now?TheMadFool

    Not really. The future will bring chaos, barren soil, reduction of biodiversity, more pollution, suffering, fire and water, superstorms and superlightnings, stupidity, the first trillionair (in dollars), poverty at max, acid rain again, crumbling towers, and if we're lucky some exploding thermonuclear devices. It remains to be seen if a movie will be made about his era.
  • SoftEdgedWonder
    42
    Okay, my opinion.
    I think it's really dumd. To think technique can replace human parts is to be ignorant, seriously ignorant, about the beauty of biological functioning. And about its nature, which is incompatible, even incommensurable, with biological processes.

    But if people wanna spend their time and money on it, who am I to forbid?

    All this being said... an iron computerized AI dick...Mmmmm... would be nice.... viagra starts wearing out...
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    Well, I raised the novel on that other "transhumanism thread" with David Pearce (yours is the very next post). Better late than never I suppose ...
    Both Brave New World's "soma" and (inversely) A Clockwork Orange's "Ludovico Technique" come to mind, but much more invasively and totalitarian.
    — 180 Proof
    180 Proof


    What is soma?

    Soma is a drug that is handed out for free to all the citizens of the World State. In small doses, soma makes people feel good. In large doses, it creates pleasant hallucinations and a sense of timelessness. The citizens of the World State are encouraged to take soma by “hypnopaedic” sayings like “A gram is better than a damn.” When they experience strong negative emotions, citizens take a soma “holiday” to distract them from the unpleasant feelings. John sees soma as a tool of social control. He says that taking soma makes the citizens of the World State “slaves.”
    — Brave New World, Q & A


    The Ludovico Technique

    Alex is convicted of murder and sentenced to 14 years in Wandsworth Prison. His parents visit one day to inform him that Georgie has been killed in a botched robbery. Two years into his term, he has obtained a job in one of the prison chapels, playing music on the stereo to accompany the Sunday Christian services. The chaplain mistakes Alex's Bible studies for stirrings of faith; in reality, Alex is only reading Scripture for the violent or sexual passages. After his fellow cellmates blame him for beating a troublesome cellmate to death, he is chosen to undergo an experimental behaviour modification treatment called the Ludovico Technique in exchange for having the remainder of his sentence commuted. The technique is a form of aversion therapy, in which Alex is injected with nausea-inducing drugs while watching graphically violent films, eventually conditioning him to become severely ill at the mere thought of violence. As an unintended consequence, the soundtrack to one of the films, Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, renders Alex unable to enjoy his beloved classical music as before.
    — Wikipedia

    This is the paradox of psychology. It takes a human brain to realize that the human brain is an animal brain after all - trainable just like animals. The human brain is not an animal brain (the former can do things the latter can't) and yet, it is an animal brain (we can train humans just like we can train animals).

    Sheldon Trains Penny



    Transhumanism must deal with the paradox of hedonism formulated by Henry Sidgwick.


    Paradox of hedonism:

    When one pursues happiness itself, one is miserable; but, when one pursues something else, one achieves happiness.
    — Wikipedia
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    It's impossible to predict what the future holds. What now?
    — TheMadFool

    Not really. The future will bring chaos, barren soil, reduction of biodiversity, more pollution, suffering, fire and water, superstorms and superlightnings, stupidity, the first trillionair (in dollars), poverty at max, acid rain again, crumbling towers, and if we're lucky some exploding thermonuclear devices. It remains to be seen if a movie will be made about his era
    SoftEdgedWonder

    Doomsayer!
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    Now we wait until transhumanism lets us predict what the future holds so that we make no further mistakes in the field of transhumanism ;)Hermeticus

    Sounds like a plan! :up:
  • 180 Proof
    5.6k
    Like all your "paradoxes", Fool, this one too is only apparent. :yawn:
  • SoftEdgedWonder
    42
    Soma is a drug that is handed out for free to all the citizens of the World State. In small doses, soma makes people feel good. In large doses, it creates pleasant hallucinations and a sense of timelessness. — Brave New World, Q & A

    Sounds like alcohol in present times. Consumed by those living in in-between limbolands or by those in the class of compliant loan slaves. To keep them compliant (even obedient). Big money for the big dealers like Heineken, once kidnapped.
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    Like all your "paradoxes", Fool, this one too is only apparent. :yawn:180 Proof

    :smile:
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    [Soma] Sounds like alcohol in present timesSoftEdgedWonder

    You maybe onto something.

    In the Vedic tradition, soma is a ritual drink of importance among the early Vedic Indo-Aryans. The Rigveda mentions it, particularly in the Soma Mandala. Gita mentions the drink in Chapter 9. It is equivalent to the Iranian haoma.Soma

    Did Aldous Huxley take a page out of Indo-Aryan culture. What if, what Huxley predicts already happened, a failed social expermient lost to history?
  • SoftEdgedWonder
    42
    Did Aldous Huxley take a page out of Indo-Aryan culture. What if, what Huxley predicts already happened, a failed social expermient lost to history?TheMadFool

    Looks like it indeed! I didn't know about soma being used by Indo-Aryans way back (?). I think I ask for an operation. To transform me into an Indo-Aryan... ☺
  • Hermeticus
    58
    Did Aldous Huxley take a page out of Indo-Aryan culture. What if, what Huxley predicts already happened, a failed social expermient lost to history?TheMadFool

    Most certainly. Huxley was a great fan of Indian philosophy and published various articles on the Vedanta school.

    Soma was a huge part of Indian culture. The earliest hymns of the Rigveda mentions it almost as often as the major deities of the time. In fact it was so significant to early Indian belief that the mixture itself was considered a deity and it's psychedelic nature likely went on to inspire much of the latter mythology.

    I'm not sure if Soma really ought to be considered all bad in Brave New World either. It's a double-sided coin. Yes, it is used to control the masses. But on the other side, it's what makes that dystopian society bearable for the masses.
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    Most certainly. Huxley was a great fan of Indian philosophy and published various articles on the Vedanta school.

    Soma was a huge part of Indian culture. The earliest hymns of the Rigveda mentions it almost as often as the major deities of the time. In fact it was so significant to early Indian belief that the mixture itself was considered a deity and it's psychedelic nature likely went on to inspire much of the latter mythology.

    I'm not sure if Soma really ought to be considered all bad in Brave New World either. It's a double-sided coin. Yes, it is used to control the masses. But on the other side, it's what makes that dystopian society bearable for the masses.
    Hermeticus

    In a way legitimizing drugs.
  • Hermeticus
    58
    In a way legitimizing drugs.TheMadFool

    Huxley having done a fair amount of experiments with psychedelics as well, perhaps his ulterior motive was simply to sell both governments and consumers on the idea to solve all their problems with drugs :D
  • TheMadFool
    11.9k
    Huxley having done a fair amount of experiments with psychedelics as well, perhaps his ulterior motive was simply to sell both governments and consumers on the idea to solve all their problems with drugs :DHermeticus

    You never know what people are up to these days, just like it was in the past and will be in the future.
  • Zugzwang
    131
    :up: Not transcending it; rather steering it.TheMadFool

    Interesting distinction. I think I agree.
  • Shawn
    11.7k
    Look it's a straw man!

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNs3K4yI973BJCMHLb6--Pb5utDZoSbatJAQ&usqp=CAU
  • Shawn
    11.7k
    Indubitably living longer is a goal anyone would want, eventually available to have as an option. So, I don't quite see why that basic stipulation of Transhumanism is not desired??
  • Janus
    10.7k
    I voted 'other', meaning indifferent. I haven't found the movement to be significant enough to warrant an attitude towards it. If it gains more traction I will be against it, as I think it represents the pinnacle of human arrogance.
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