Something is there that's being described by the math, given the massive gravitational effects on nearby objects. And it's condensed to a small area for that much gravity. It also doesn't give off light beyond a certain point. There is real data about the objects we model as black holes. — Marchesk
That's assuming general relativity provides us with an accurate model of things at this scale. But we can consider that the concept of "event horizon" is evidence that general relativity doesn't provide us with an accurate model. — Metaphysician Undercover
Whether GR is accurate or not doesn't change the astronomical data. There is something there. Our understanding of it might be inaccurate, but that doesn't change the data. — Marchesk
Something is there that's being described by the math, given the massive gravitational effects on nearby objects. And it's condensed to a small area for that much gravity. It also doesn't give off light beyond a certain point. There is real data about the objects we model as black holes. — Marchesk
The only thing that's definitely there is numbers from our instruments that don't match what we're expecting given our current gravitational models. — Terrapin Station
I'm not sure I understand, are you saying that black holes are merely theoretical? Perhaps elements of the subject do not completely ameliorate its external properties, but the emission of electromagnetic wavelengths from quasar radiation have been observed where redshift surveys that use parametrical time delays have been compared. That is, the interaction between matter and electromagnetic radiation - visible through the wavelengths of spectral lines - have been observed.we could safely assert black holes as abstract — mcdoodle
They match what we're expecting given our current gravitational models to a high degree of accuracy. — SophistiCat
The structure and apparent motion of stars doesn't match what we're expecting given our gravitational model. Hence the need to invent black holes. — Terrapin Station
No. Black holes are a generic prediction of General Relativity. I — SophistiCat
That they're consistent with GR doesn't make them a prediction of GR. We invented them so that they'd be consistent with GR, otherwise we'd need to retool our gravitational theory. — Terrapin Station
That they're consistent with GR doesn't make them a prediction of GR. We invented them so that they'd be consistent with GR, otherwise we'd need to retool our gravitational theory. — Terrapin Station
Black holes are what we can expect to see, given GR. — SophistiCat
I don't see how this could be true. What is it inherent within GR which would make you expect to see a black hole? — Metaphysician Undercover
That doesn't indicate that there is anything inherent within GR which would make you expect to find a black hole, it indicates that certain types of stars when understood under GR make you expect to find a black hole. — Metaphysician Undercover
The structure and apparent motion of stars doesn't match what we're expecting given our gravitational model. Hence the need to invent black holes. — Terrapin Station
That doesn't indicate that there is anything inherent within GR which would make you expect to find a black hole, it indicates that certain types of stars when understood under GR make you expect to find a black hole. — Metaphysician Undercover
So the issue here, appears to be that since there are such objects, black holes, whose mass is contained within the Schwartzchild radius, doesn't this indicate that GR is inadequate for understanding some aspects of the universe? — Metaphysician Undercover
The structure and apparent motion of stars doesn't match what we're expecting given our gravitational model. Hence the need to invent black holes. — Terrapin Station
We "invented" them only in the same sense that we "invent" solutions to equations — SophistiCat
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