• Gobuddygo
    28
    I can use a mirror to indirectly observe what my face looks like. Indirect self knowledge is possible. My point is that some part of the reference-er cannot refer directly at itself.Yohan

    The part that refers cannot be referred to while referring. Indeed. But what's so important about tha? Making a prediction cannot be part of that what is to be predicted.
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    9k
    You would have to ask me if I am intending to point at the mirror, the imagine in the mirror, or am using the mirror to point my finger at itself.Yohan

    That's right. And this is an indication of the inherent ambiguity within "pointing". To clarify, and resolve the ambiguity, we need to ask, 'what are you pointing at, and the pointer must provide further context to ensure that the person being shown the thing interprets the pointing in the same way as the person pointing.

    The part that refers cannot be referred to while referring.Gobuddygo

    Why is this a problem for you? I see no problem, as long as we maintain as reality, that there is always a medium between the person doing the referring, and the thing referred to. Point your left finger at your right finger, and say "I am pointing at my finger". You can be pointing at either your right or your left, because it is you who is pointing, and your finger, as the means is just a medium. When I say "I" the part that refers, myself, is doing the referring. The medium, the word "I" is just the means which I choose, like when I choose my right finger to point at my left finger. The ambiguity is a feature of the choice of medium..
  • Yohan
    225
    The part that refers cannot be referred to while referring. Indeed. But what's so important about tha?Gobuddygo
    I think some of the apparent paradoxes are due to talking as if self-reference were happening.

    Making a prediction cannot be part of that what is to be predicted.Gobuddygo
    Sounds right, but kind of unrelated?

    That's right. And this is an indication of the inherent ambiguity within "pointing". To clarify, and resolve the ambiguity, we need to ask, 'what are you pointing at, and the pointer must provide further context to ensure that the person being shown the thing interprets the pointing in the same way as the person pointing.Metaphysician Undercover
    Not sure what you mean by further context exactly, but yeah I guess if I am trying to communicate something to someone I have to make sure we agree on meanings, or else the meaning will only be for myself.
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