Is intelligence levels also levels of consciousness?

Maximum7

I just want to clarify that I do NOT think I have a more gifted mind than average. Not at all. However, I am very existential and often wonder about the nature of basic things.

Anyway, one of my favorite books is Flowers for Algernon where a mentally disabled man named Charlie Gordon is experimented on and his intelligence is uplifted to that of a genius. Once he begins to rapidly increase in intelligence, he finally realizes that his co-workers had been constantly making fun of him and all his memories come to the forefront and it’s almost like he is “waking up” and reliving his life

Now I also know a man who is considered mentally disabled as well. He is very interested in politics and legitimately thinks he was once a council person. He also said he could make a particular candidate lose with his influence since she “betrayed” him. He really believes he can make a difference in the political world.

I also have a friend with severe Aspergers Syndrome and he believes his old elementary school teacher will come to his house and take away his favorite books.

My point is; their view of reality is so warped and they legitimately believe these ridiculous things. Both would be considered borderline intellectually functioning. I know for a fact that my friend has an IQ of 75 and the other one can’t be far off the mark. The reality they live in is so different from the one I occupy. I know that I am nothing special and insignificant to the wider universe and Einstein was able to see the way the universe works in a way that I never could.

I now pose the question. Does different levels of intelligence mean different levels of consciousness and self-awareness?

If you have the name of any study that explores my query; please share the source so I can learn more.

MAYAEL

You titled your topic in such a way that I can't help but think that you have an accent

Daemon

1. You probably are more intelligent than average, judging solely from this post.
2. But what does it mean to be "very existential"?
3. There are endless discussions about what consciousness means, what intelligence means, the words are used in many different ways. There are also discussions about "levels of consciousness". So you're not going to get a straightforward answer to your question, here or anywhere else.

Apollodorus

I now pose the question. Does different levels of intelligence mean different levels of consciousness and self-awareness? — Maximum7

Good question. I can't think of any particular study that would give you a definitive answer. However, it seems to me that intelligence, consciousness, and awareness are inseparable from each other.

Otherwise put, they are aspects of the same one thing, depending on how we choose to define them.

1. For starters, there would need to be consciousness.

2. Consciousness would imply awareness of itself and of other things.

3. And intelligence would refer to how consciousness operates in relation (a) to itself, (b) to the mind (thoughts, emotions, sense perceptions), and (c) to the world.

So, perhaps you could say that intelligence and awareness are functions of consciousness.

If this is the case, different levels of one would to some degree imply different levels of the others.

RogueAI

If consciousness were correlated with intelligence, then the times when I'm wasted, my consciousness should be "less" than when I'm not on drugs. That is not the case. Often, the opposite is true. I don't think disabled people have any less consciousness than brilliant people.

Maximum7

↪RogueAI

Well I have to concede and agree with you and everyone else. It’s just my friends perception of reality is so warped. He wouldn’t stop with his teacher so I said she was watching him with a telescope; sarcastically. He said “How do you know?” I just thought the lack of reality was due to lower perception of the world.

Apollodorus

I don't think disabled people have any less consciousness than brilliant people. — RogueAI

I don't think it needs to be less. It may simply be different. Otherwise, what it is that makes them "disabled"?

TheMadFool

I now pose the question. Does different levels of intelligence mean different levels of consciousness and self-awareness? — Maximum7

Excellent question. I'm beginning to doubt the alleged link between intelligence and self-awareness. I say this because intriguing & equally if not more puzzling is the fact that to the best of my knowledge IQ tests don't assess self-awareness. I'm frankly shocked to discover this! :chin:

What's all the fuss about the Turing test?!

Curious, very curious indeed!

hypericin

↪Maximum7

I used to think so, now I think not.

When the times when I'm wasted, my consciousness should be "less" — RogueAI

I like this argument. Although in my case, at least, the two are linked. When I am drunk and/or high, not only is my degree of consciousness higher, my intelligence generally is too.

There is clearly a relationship between the two. At least, if the brain is stimulated so that consciousness increases, that stimulation can also apply to intelligence. In my view, conscious thought is built on a foundation of internal phenomenal perception. Therefore if that internal perception is amplified, conscious thought should be as well.

I think the best counterexample might be autism. Autism is primarily a perceptual disorder, where perceptions are believed to be subjectively amplified vs. the neurotypical. Rather than increase intelligence, this amplification can interfere with it, especially developmentally. If the baby spends all its time preoccupied with perceptions, often negatively so, it has little room to develop higher order cognition. And when that window closes, its closed forever.

Tom Storm

I now pose the question. Does different levels of intelligence mean different levels of consciousness and self-awareness? — Maximum7

A low IQ will often come with poor understanding of self and others and very little capacity to conceptualise abstracts or systems. This immediately reduces capacity for comprehending ideas and relationships between ideas. Using the term 'different levels of consciousness' seems a bit New-Agey and requires some key indicators to be meaningful. Capacity for 'self awareness 'is another ambiguous term. I would probably call that insight. I am sure many of us have met super high IQ types who are really 'dumb' in their interactions with other people and have no insight into their own behaviour.

RogueAI

I don't think it needs to be less. It may simply be different. Otherwise, what it is that makes them "disabled"? — Apollodorus

I agree that conscious experiences are different, but I don't think you can quantify consciousness. You're either conscious or you're not. I don't think, say, a cat is at level x and I'm at level x+whatever because of my higher order thinking skills. I think the conscious experience is just...different for me and the cat.

Apollodorus

Capacity for 'self awareness 'is another ambiguous term. I would probably call that insight. — Tom Storm

Everything can be ambiguous without an agreed definition. Depending on what we understand by "self", self awareness may refer to awareness of oneself as a physical body or person, awareness of one's own actions and thoughts or position in society, or again, awareness of one's own existence as a conscious living being. "Insight" seems to suggest awareness of something that is hidden, not necessarily the self.

Banno

The OP is just confusing two quite distinct notions, consciousness and intelligence.

With a dash of ableism thrown in.

Apollodorus

You're either conscious or you're not. — RogueAI

But if someone can be "highly conscious", "barely conscious", and "unconscious", then this suggests different degrees of consciousness. At any rate, there must be increasing degrees of consciousness between unconsciousness and full consciousness, e.g. when we wake up from deep sleep.

Conversely, when we are extremely tired we may be increasingly less conscious than when fully awake and alert. The same is true when the normal function of our brain or general nervous system is impaired due to illness or other causes.

RogueAI

But if someone can be "highly conscious", "barely conscious", and "unconscious", then this suggests different degrees of consciousness. At any rate, there must be increasing degrees of consciousness between unconsciousness and full consciousness, e.g. when we wake up from deep sleep.

Conversely, when we are extremely tired we may be increasingly less conscious than when fully awake and alert. The same is true when the normal function of our brain or general nervous system is impaired due to illness or other causes. — Apollodorus

I get this, but I think even if you're emerging from a deep sleep and extremely drowsy, that drowsiness is just as much a conscious state (quantatatively) as when you're fully alert. Like I said, the conscious experience in those cases (drowsiness vs wide-awake) is just different, and not a measure of quantity of consciousness.

I think "awareness" is better. You're either aware or you're not. If you're emerging from anesthesia and barely conscious, you're just as aware as if you're amped up on meth, say. I get that that seems counterintuitive. I'm not doing a good job describing what I mean here.

Tom Storm

"Insight" seems to suggest awareness of something that is hidden, not necessarily the self. — Apollodorus

I can't think of something that is more successfully hidden in many people than the self. Hence the aphorism, νῶθι σεαυτόν. A classic Delphic maxim - know thyself... And yes, I appreciate that there are several conative applications of this idea.

Apollodorus

the conscious experience in those cases (drowsiness vs wide-awake) is just different, and not a measure of quantity of consciousness. — RogueAI

Yes, but "different" in what sense? Different could equally apply to difference in quantity. The consciousness may still be there, but if it is less aware this may mean a sort of contraction of consciousness, in which case there is less consciousness available for producing awareness.

Apollodorus

I can't think of something that is more successfully hidden in many people than the self. Hence the aphorism, νῶθι σεαυτόν. A classic Delphic maxim - know thyself... And yes, I appreciate that there are several conative applications of this idea. — Tom Storm

True. However, if insight is awareness of or into the self, then it is the same as self-awareness which is a form of awareness. And awareness seems to be a function of consciousness.

In other words, consciousness is the self-aware agent and awareness is the activity by which consciousness is aware of itself and other things. The capacity to conceptualize abstracts or systems and to comprehend ideas and relationships between ideas would be intelligence.

So, consciousness would come first, followed by (self-)awareness, followed by intelligence.

Alkis Piskas

Topic:Is intelligence levels also levels of consciousness?

↪Maximum7

BTW, shouldn't maybe the title of your topic be corrected to "Are intelligence levels also levels of consciousness?

Does different levels of intelligence mean different levels of consciousness and self-awareness? — Maximum7

1) I don't think there are levels of either intelligence or consciousness. (Maybe only some exotic theories here and there about levels/stages of consciousness.)
2) Intelligence and consciousness are two totally different things. (I won't get into describing their difference; there are plenty of references on this.)

The only thing that I can say with some certainty is that they seem to be proportional. But I don't know of any studies done on this subject. And, if there were, they would have been done by scientists (psychologists, neuroscientists, etc.) who consider that both intelligence and consciousness are products of the brain, i.e. material in nature. And I wouldn't care about something of this sort.

Kenosha Kid

Intelligence and consciousness are two totally different things.

The only thing that I can say with some certainty is that they seem to be proportional. — Alkis Piskas

That would suggest they are related and therefore not totally different.

↪Maximum7

'Consciousness' is one of those words that takes its meaning by the hole it fills in a belief system. At bare minimum, your talking of phenomenal consciousness: consciousness of things. You describe your friends as being conscious of things that are not real, or do not accord with your understanding of reality. Is this what "more" or "less" conscious means to you: a measure of fidelity?

Otherwise people are usually speaking of self-consciousness or access consciousness, which is what we can account for. If your friend has a mistaken phenomenal consciousness but can describe it with high fidelity, then he is perfectly conscious in this sense, right? However he could have perfect phenomenal consciousness but his access consciousness is low fidelity. An example of the latter might be the author of a detective novel who, after a brain injury, thought he was the character in the novel. Nothing wrong with his perceptions, he just held, or at least talked about, mistaken facts about himself. This is more autobiographical, and not something that would necessarily show up on an intelligence test, whereas mistaken phenomenal consciousness likely would.

Alkis Piskas

↪Kenosha Kid

The only thing that I can say with some certainty is that they seem to be proportional.
— Alkis Piskas

That would suggest they are related and therefore not totally different. — Kenosha Kid

Creativity and imagination are proportional to intelligence. But they are all different things.
Heat and temperature are directly proportional. But they are two different things.
...

hope

he finally realizes that his co-workers had been constantly making fun of him and all his memories come to the forefront and it’s almost like he is “waking up” and reliving his life — Maximum7

This is how psychotherapy works. You re-interpret all your old trauma memories according to your new adult self. Causing it to update your beliefs and loose its traumatic influence. Now you can forgive and forget.

Is intelligence levels also levels of consciousness?

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