• frank
    14.6k
    O Canada! Our home and native land!
    True patriot love in all thy sons command.
    With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
    The True North strong and free!
    From far and wide, O Canada,
    We stand on guard for thee.
    God keep our land, glorious and free!
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee;
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee
    wonderer1

    :nerd:

    Russia and Greenland will open up as well. North Dakota will be nice.
  • frank
    14.6k
    Humans can move the plants that they want to move. This solves the problem for plants that can't move themselves. All of our food crops etc will be easy to shift.Agree-to-Disagree

    I think the main threat to global stability will be climate volatility. A few punches in the face we can handle. But if they just keep coming we'll eventually fall.
  • Agree-to-Disagree
    412
    I think the main threat to global stability will be climate volatility.frank

    The climate is already very variable when you look at summer and winter. Animals and plants have evolved to cope with this variability.
  • Mikie
    6.3k


    Just ignore those who have no interest in learning anything. Pat them on the head and reassure them everything will be fine. It’s beneficial…It’s just a narrative…it’ll be okay in 2000 years; whatever it is. Go with it.


    Back in the real world:

    NASA Announces Summer 2023 Hottest on Record

    This new record comes as exceptional heat swept across much of the world, exacerbating deadly wildfires in Canada and Hawaii, and searing heat waves in South America, Japan, Europe, and the U.S., while likely contributing to severe rainfall in Italy, Greece, and Central Europe.
  • Mikie
    6.3k
    Nothing exposes the new age of information silos and “do your own research” attitudes as the ridiculous frauds they are like the actual sciences.

    In other areas, like art and history and politics— and even philosophy— one can get away with a lot of off-the-cuff, armchair opining. It’s sometimes hard to tell who’s a moron.

    That’s why I like to read the “hot takes” on climate. People get used to having an opinion on everything— and getting away with knowing nothing. Like winging it on a test and still getting a passing grade. But with climate change, or evolutionary biology, or civil engineering, or geology, or astrophysics — it’s so incredibly easy to sort out its like a sieve. Very useful.

    Anyway— I point it out because it amounts to less time wasted on imbeciles when they go to post on other threads. In this case I recommend everyone read the climate change thread occasionally, to remove all doubt about one’s interlocutors.
  • frank
    14.6k
    The climate is already very variable when you look at summer and winter. Animals and plants have evolved to cope with this variability.Agree-to-Disagree

    No, it's stuff like bigger droughts and destructive storms. And remember we talked about the potential shutdown of the AMOC. That would essentially destroy western Europe.
  • unenlightened
    8.8k
    Russia and Greenland will open up as well. North Dakota will be nice.frank

    When you have a nice thick heavy ice sheet grinding over the land for a few thousand years, it doesn't do much to improve the topsoil. Greenland will open up indeed, apart from the coastal regions where people live, which will be under water, but the open land will be scoured to bare rock. Perfect for the Flintstones and Asterix and Obelisk. but in a few short decades, pioneer plants will start to build up the soil - dandelions, heathers and the like. In a century or two it will indeed be "nice". Shame about Africa, India Indonesia , etc. though.
  • unenlightened
    8.8k
    It's the alien lizards in charge that are doing all this, Everyone knows they are cold blooded and need the planet to be hotter.
  • Mikie
    6.3k


    Alien lizards. Yes. Now at least you’re making sense.

    Perfect for the Flintstones and Asterix and Obeliskunenlightened

    Lol. It’s gonna be great. CO2 is good for plants anyway so…no worries.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    And remember we talked about the potential shutdown of the AMOC. That would essentially destroy western Europe.frank

    Now, a new study finds the collapse of the current, which is known as the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation, or AMOC, could happen far sooner than scientists have previously thought, possibly within a few decades, as a result of human-caused global warming.

    "Could"? "Possibly"? Just another example of that alarmist reporting feeding into the official narrative. Let's all freak out and fall in lock step with the doomsayers. "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!"

    Doomsaying is probably on par with flattery as the most pathetically overused gimick in human history.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    — and getting away with knowing nothing.Mikie

    Like being a radical climate change activist without knowing that the notion of "sustainability" originated with Marcuse?
  • frank
    14.6k
    Doomsaying is probably on par with flattery as the most pathetically overused gimick in human history.Merkwurdichliebe

    Yea but Cassandra was right.
  • Mikie
    6.3k


    It didn’t originate with Marcuse. You made that up. Which proves my point about denialist imbeciles.
  • jorndoe
    3.4k
    , climate activism (even alarmism perhaps) can be bona fides scientifically justified. Morally likewise. What of denialism/contrarianism then?
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    Yea but Cassandra was right.frank

    I think her older brother is theboy who cried wolf
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    It didn’t originate with Marcuse. You made that up. Which proves my point about denialist imbeciles.Mikie

    Who else was talking like this prior to 1964?

    Modern man’s despoliation of the environment is global in scope, like his imperialism [...] Today human parasitism disrupts more than the atmosphere, climate, water resources, soil, flora, and fauna of a region; it upsets virtually all the basic cycles of nature and threatens to undermine the stability of the environment on a worldwide scale. (Marcuse 1964) — Marcuse 1964

    Accounts of this kind can be repeated for virtually every part of the biosphere. Pages can be written on the immense losses of productive soil that occur annually in almost every continent of the earth; on the extensive loss of tree cover in areas vulnerable to erosion; on lethal air pollution episodes in major urban areas; on the worldwide distribution of toxic agents, such as radioactive isotopes and lead; on the chemicalization of man’s immediate environment [...] Pieced together like bits of a jigsaw puzzle, these affronts to the environment form a pattern of destruction that has no precedent in man’s long history on the earth. — Marcuse 1964

    Marcuse's ideas about the environment were embedded within his broader critique of capitalist societies. While he did not focus exclusively on environmental issues, his work contributed to discussions about the relationship between society and the environment. 
    .
    He viewed the capitalist tendency to turn everything, including nature, into commodities for profit as contributing to environmental problems, and was critical of a consumerist culture that contributed to the generation of pollution and the excessive consumption of resources.

    And, athough he was not an environmentalist in the conventional sense, Marcuse believed that achieving greater social justice would require a fundamental transformation of the existing social and economic order, and that such a transformation would have positive implications for rectifying environmental destruction.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    climate activism (even alarmism perhaps) can be bona fides scientifically justified. Morally likewise. What of denialism/contrarianism then?jorndoe

    Alarmism contributes nothing to scientific "bona fides". It is dead weight. Or is that a critical part of the scientific process that I have been missing?

    In my view, denial/contrarianism is sometimes justified when alarmism becomes the main defense for an argument that cannot convince on its own merit.
  • jorndoe
    3.4k
    , maybe you didn't read it quite right, shuffling some words.

    Activism (and possibly alarmism) can be a bona fides reaction, with scientific justification, and moral guts.

    (As an aside, you may entertain whatever view you like; around here you'll have to justify them unless you just want to talk about yourself.)
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    Activism (and possibly alarmism) can be a bona fides reaction, with scientific justification, and moral guts.jorndoe

    Sure, alarmist reaction to scientific data can be genuine. But, it is not necessary to the truth of the science itself. The science should be able to explain things in its own terms, and does not need an alarmist interpretation or an appeal to emotion in order to reify it.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    (As an aside, you may entertain whatever view you like; around here you'll have to justify them unless you just want to talk about yourself.)jorndoe

    Ok :wink:
  • frank
    14.6k
    think her older brother is theboy who cried wolfMerkwurdichliebe

    His cousin was little Red Ridinghood.
  • Mikie
    6.3k
    Conspiracy theorists will believe anything except the one conspiracy that is actually happening - that the fossil fuel industry has been lying about knowingly killing us all for half a century, & our governments are still funding them to the tune of $13,000,000 every minute.
  • jorndoe
    3.4k
    Hurricane Sally roamed about in Sep 2020.

    3 years after Hurricane Sally, Pensacola is still struggling to rebuild
    — Julia Jacobo, David Miller · ABC · Sep 18, 2023
    Now, even run-of-the-mill rainstorms are causing regular flooding in the city.
    Residents are striving to stay in their water-damaged homes, while community planners are tasked with fortifying the city from future flooding -- not just from powerful hurricanes, but from everyday rainstorms that are now causing more nuisance flooding than in years past.
    But the damage from Hurricane Sally, and the flooding that continues with the regular rainstorms in the years that have followed, threaten to throw her out of the historic home where she has lived since 2016.

    More frequent hurricanes wreaking havoc is one thing, increasing flooding + water levels another.
    I guess it depends on tides, the Moon, ocean currents, what-have-you — with more liquid water in circulation, some areas will see more flooding.
  • unenlightened
    8.8k
    Come gather 'round people
    Wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters
    Around you have grown
    And accept it that soon
    You'll be drenched to the bone
    If your time to you is worth savin'
    Then you better start swimmin'
    Or you'll sink like a stone
    For the times they are a-changin'.
    — Bob Dylan
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    Now, even run-of-the-mill rainstorms are causing regular flooding in the city.

    Residents are striving to stay in their water-damaged homes, while community planners are tasked with fortifying the city from future flooding -- not just from powerful hurricanes, but from everyday rainstorms that are now causing more nuisance flooding than in years past.
    jorndoe

    I was in Pensacola prior to 2020. It was a total shithole. Most of the buildings buildings were run down, and the roads and bridges looked like they hadn't been maintained for decades. I didn't take a close look, but one could assume the stormwater drains were also in a long state of disrepair. It makes complete sense that Pensacola would be having such problems with its third world infrastructure.
  • Mikie
    6.3k
    DeSantis just laid out HIS solutions to global warming:

    In a lengthy, six-pronged policy outline, Mr. DeSantis promised to remove subsidies for electric vehicles, take the U.S. out of global climate agreements — including the Paris accords — and cancel net-zero emission promises. He also vowed to increase American oil and natural gas production and “replace the phrase climate change with energy dominance” in policy guidance.

    This is why Republicans are the most dangerous party in history.

    Let’s not only do nothing about climate change — let’s cancel any effort to do so, make the problem even worse, and remove all reference to it.

    Sick, insane people.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/20/us/politics/desantis-climate-energy-biden.html
  • Agree-to-Disagree
    412

    To the tune of 'Bad Moon Rising' by Creedence Clearwater Revival

    I see CO2 a-rising
    I see trouble on the way
    I see earthquakes and lightning
    I see bad times today

    Don't go 'round tonight
    It's bound to take your life
    I see CO2 on the rise

    I hear hurricanes a-blowing
    I know the end is coming soon
    I fear rivers over flowing
    I hear the voice of rage and ruin

    Don't go 'round tonight
    It's bound to take your life
    I see CO2 on the rise

    I hope you got your things together
    I hope you are quite prepared to die
    Look's like we're in for nasty weather
    One eye is taken for an eye

    Oh don't go 'round tonight
    It's bound to take your life
    I see CO2 on the rise
    — Based on 'Bad Moon Rising' by Creedence Clearwater Revival
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    2.6k
    what you have done there is worse than anything that will come from climate change. :grimace:
  • unenlightened
    8.8k
    Sick, insane people.Mikie

    The lunatics have decided to remove the foundations and fly the asylum to the land of freedom. I don't think they'll get very far, but I wish i wouldn't be buried in the rubble.

    When politicians try to repeal the laws of physics, people die, but the laws stand firm.
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