• n1tr0z3n
    16
    We cannot ever observe the real property of the world around us, but we can only judge it in our perception, which is certainly based on experience. But there should be no doubt about the existence of a fundamental form of the world around us. The fundamental form of all things do exist in a simple shape, in some dimensions. But our thoughts and perspective makes it complex to visualize. The world indeed is made of very simple objects and the system of life is also quite simple. But we are indeed unable to perceive the simplicity, because of the complexity of our mind, of our brain. It’s not the world that’s complex and confusing, it’s our perception making things complex and confusing. This ideology also explains why opinions suggesting opposite meanings also end up being true in certain cases. Why is most of the solutions of problems so simple? Because the world can be described with the simplest of explanation. But the useless complexity of emotions have made it so much difficult to understand. Because we’ve been observing reality all wrong. But perhaps, the question we end up in is if is even necessary for us to learn about the true form of life, or should we just let it be the way it is. Life certainly is meaningless, it has a certain form but it doesnt have any meaning of it’s own. Rather with our beliefs we perceive and judge the situation we fall into, and give it a meaning. The idealism of living a meaningless life doesn’t refer to nihilism, rather it refers the possibility of people’s perception. It’s an idealism that acquires knowledge of one’s observation and debates about the applicability of that belief. To be more clear about the idea, there is no certain right or wrong. There’s no such thing as absolute true or false. It’s just the evolution of humanity and the knowledge and law poured down by generations. The birth of different cultures, religions and philosophical beliefs have effected us. Shaped our beliefs and our perception. We gave life a meaning.
  • MAYAEL
    54
    And how do you know that this fundamental reality of Simplicity exists? Didn't you use your perspective to observe it? Which is different than mine
  • Kenosha Kid
    2.4k
    While I could tell it was an attractive idea, your post confused me and I think the reason is you swap between talking about our inability to see reality as it really is to issues of life and it's meaning. The meaning of life _only_ exists in our interpretations, as you seem to acknowledge. Could you give us some examples!of what you mean?
  • T Clark
    5.4k


    Well written, also a bit over-simplistic. It will be much easier to read if you break it down into paragraphs. Many people won't even read a wall of text. You've covered pretty much all of philosophy in one looong paragraph, a commendable feat.

    But there should be no doubt about the existence of a fundamental form of the world around us.n1tr0z3n

    But there is doubt, and controversy.

    But we are indeed unable to perceive the simplicity, because of the complexity of our mind, of our brain. It’s not the world that’s complex and confusing, it’s our perception making things complex and confusing.n1tr0z3n

    There is truth in this, but it is also misleading. Our minds create reality from whatever it is that's out there, so the structure of reality is intimately related to the structure of our minds. I don't think there's any getting around that. We can't perceive the world unmediated by our minds. Those who have come closest are probably people following spiritual paths - Buddhists, Christian and Islamic mystics...

    But the useless complexity of emotions have made it so much difficult to understand.n1tr0z3n

    I think the opposite is true - without emotions, humans have no basis for valuing the world. Psychologists have shown that people with damage to the parts of the brain related to emotion often have disruption in their ability to make decisions.

    There’s no such thing as absolute true or false. It’s just the evolution of humanity and the knowledge and law poured down by generations. The birth of different cultures, religions and philosophical beliefs have effected us. Shaped our beliefs and our perception. We gave life a meaning.n1tr0z3n

    I agree. You have interesting perspectives, although, as I said, I think they are too simplistic. Welcome to the forum.
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    Well if it doesnt exist, then our perceptions wouldnt even exist. It would mean that there is nothing in existence at all. And our perception is just a made up. I mean, it is certainly the perspective you observe something to be complex, right? It's your point of view that's complex, not the element you are viewing. So the actual self of things shouldn't be too disorienting itself. Putting the ideology of disagreeing in simplicity of things in people's mind won't be of any use. Rather it would be a bit nonsensical in a way.
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    OF COURSE EMOTIONS ARE TRULY A GREAT GIFT FOR THE EVOLUTION OF MANKIND AND FOR THE CHOICE WE MAKE! I simply defined the fact that at moments we make things overcomplicated with out perception, which shouldn't be done so. Of course there's no certain definition of how to realize the true form of things, or realizing if a person's perspective is a correct one. But in terms of it's applicability, we actually can define something closely related to the true form of things.

    Sorry, I got past the point, yeah, human emotions are one of the most significant abilities we have. It's a must for survival : D and other stuffs... But emotions also create the barrier for us to actually understand the real event..
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    Well yes, the doubt remains because of our perception which get misleading at moments.. and certainly we do not agree with most of other's opinions. But if the fundamental property of the world doesn't exist, then how come does perception do? I mean, we wouldn't need different perspectives and differences in our mindsets and decision making to view the world differently, if it didn't have a simplistic fundamental form. Apparently, We just cannot view the absolute truth, because our observation is certainly based on the form of our minds.. But it must exist. Complexity is nothing more than a point of view and applicability.
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    There is truth in this, but it is also misleading. Our minds create reality from whatever it is that's out there, so the structure of reality is intimately related to the structure of our minds.
    , if that's what you believe, then what would you call the thing that's out there? Something absolute? Something that is only interpreted without any points of view or difference, something that has to be absolutely true, which as a matter of fact, we change, because of our perception. Is it simplistic? Actually?

    We can't perceive the world unmediated by our minds. Those who have come closest are probably people following spiritual paths - Buddhists, Christian and Islamic mystics...
    Well, they have come closer, but they raise different opinions. Besides, the true fact is we can never look above us, look at the void which is the absolute reality. We are blinded because of our minds. our perception. Meditation? Does it actually lead you to understand the actual self of the world even more? Or does it leave you to learn more about yourself? Learn more about what makes you yourself and happy and finds a meaning to life and possesses a way to fulfill life with balance? They are just trying to find a system for people to live in. That's what religions are. You are keeping yourself separated in a different world where you get the ability to know yourself better. Not others better. Not the world better. It's exploring your ownself. Not the true nature of world.
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    I
    The meaning of life _only_ exists in our interpretations, as you seem to acknowledge. Could you give us some examples!of what you mean?

    Finding a reason to live, finding a meaning of life. People with different perspective and opinions about all sorts of things, bla bla bla.. It differs, right? It's because of our experience and perception. It's all we can feel, talk about, understand. All that our cognitive mind can analyze. Primarily, I raised up that idea to describe the lack of ability of people to understand reality.
  • MAYAEL
    54




    >>>Well if it doesnt exist, then our perceptions wouldnt even exist.<<<

    And how did you come to that assumption? and it is just an assumption hopefully you realize that.


    >>>It would mean that there is nothing in existence at all.<<<

    according to what ? . again why/how did you come to that seemingly random negative opinion ?

    >>> And our perception is just a made up. I mean, it is certainly the perspective you observe something to be complex, right?<<<

    it's very easy for us to form an opinion and twisted view of an experience that we have had and not realize this because we do it 24/7 so it's an automatic unconscious habit we all have.

    with that said the experience that you remember is made up like you said
    but with practice a person can learn how to observe life and just be in the moment and observe without judgement or opinion (more like greatly reduced IMO I don't think a person can live in the moment completely without opinion but you can reduce it significantly).





    >>>It's your point of view that's complex, not the element you are viewing. So the actual self of things shouldn't be too disorienting itself.<<<



    well like we've been talking about this would be perspective face it's entirely your perspective if you want to take it as simple or complex but it's up to the experiencer.

    >>> Putting the ideology of disagreeing in simplicity of things in people's mind won't be of any use. Rather it would be a bit nonsensical in a way.<<<
    perspective perspective perspective
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    Well, I am just trying to appreciate people's opinions and try to realize the reason of them hitting to that point, that's why I use the word "perspective" wayyy to much to define their "reason" to be who they are based on their approach different scenarios and problems and how they think. as the base of their system to judge things based on their own cognitive ability based on the experience they've received .. Besides, the actual definition of perspective is too misleading and its nothing more than a massive confusion. I just meant the difference in human emotions and decision making ability based on the brain. And call it "perspective".
    And yes, of course I cannot ever be certain about my thoughts because it's just assumptions. In fact, most of our beliefs can't be proven right either except the one's that are truly "applicable". Existence of religion? Understanding if there's even any meaning to life or not? Why do we even need to, lol. The only useful part is creating a better system for society! Improving the world! well we are pretty much free to chose what we want the world around us to be like. But since it's really based on our brain, which is formed based on our experience and we are just being forced to do things by other people in society, does independence even exist : | well off-topic i guess

    Well of course! Reality is certainly something we cannot ever define, at all!! In fact, if there wasn't a perception of someone to think about something and realize how they feel about it, how will the meaning of something even exist?

    I wrote this just to acknowledge the idea that being 100% truthful in all scenarios make no sense. Sometimes you need to make people live with the lie and make them believe that life is easy.
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    Yup, I do realize that it's nothing more than an assumption, because I don't have any proof of it to be true and neither i guess it's possible to perfectly explain what's the actual truth either.

    I just wrote this to ask about people's opinions on this topic and how right it can be in the case of making the world a bit less complicated for people and helping us to try to understand each other's opinions even more.
  • T Clark
    5.4k
    Sorry, I got past the point, yeah, human emotions are one of the most significant abilities we have. It's a must for survival : D and other stuffs... But emotions also create the barrier for us to actually understand the real event..n1tr0z3n

    The mind is an incredibly complex system of interacting processes. Emotions are deeply embedded in that system. They can't be separated out. On the other hand, yes, I do understand what you're saying.

    , if that's what you believe, then what would you call the thing that's out there? Something absolute? Something that is only interpreted without any points of view or difference, something that has to be absolutely true, which as a matter of fact, we change, because of our perception. Is it simplistic? Actually?n1tr0z3n

    Let me be clear first - I think the question of whether or not there is an objective reality is a metaphysical question. By that I mean it is not a matter of fact. It's a matter of our assumptions - what Collingwood calls "absolute presuppositions." For many of the things we do in life, assuming objective reality makes sense. In others, it can be misleading.

    That's an introduction to my favored understanding of underlying reality - the Tao as discussed by Lao Tzu in the Tao Te Ching. Are you familiar? When I say I favor it, it means I think it is the most useful for me. The Tao is just as much a metaphysical concept as objective reality.
  • n1tr0z3n
    16
    Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience! It is very valuable to me and I appreciate your kindness. :) I think I'm still quite young. So I need to get a load more of experience and thoughts..
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