• Trestone
    56
    Hello,

    I want to indicate here how a quantum layer model
    can apply to important quantum theoretical effects and later even more
    (ideas to mind – body).

    The basis theory is my layer logic, a new logic that I have introduced here:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/1446/layer-logic-an-interesting-alternative
    or:
    New Logic: Layer Logic

    (Inquiries and corrections are welcome!)

    Sketch of my quantum layer model:

    If you take e.g. the double slit, then I let virtual particles run
    from the source in front of the slits on all possible paths to the target screen.
    These meet possible destinations and then return in reverse time to the origin.
    All destination information is already available there at the start.
    However, virtual and with the same layer, therefore inaccessible (like the future for us).
    The quantum randomness consists in blindly choosing one of these possibilities
    that becomes real (this can also be a route package).

    The mind with its layer of infinity can perceive all these possibilities at the origin
    and therefore make a targeted selection.
    In a way, this happens outside of the usual boundaries of space and time,
    as he has information about possible destinations and times.
    But since he can only choose from the options offered,
    he will not violate the rules of space and time
    because its targeted selection could also have been made blind (i.e. purely physically).

    The "seeing of all bodies" is not meant instantly by me, but only as a possibility:
    In principle, the mind can perceive any body (with a finite level) with its level infinite,
    but to do this, information has to be brought from this body to the mind, e.g. a ray of light.
    So it can be billions of years before the mind sees a body,
    and it may never see a body in a black hole.

    1. The double slit (and quantum eraser):

    Here it is amazing that quantum particles / objects that are confronted
    with several open slits
    behave differently (interference) than when alternately only one slit is open.

    And even if you receive information (but before it arrives at the screen),
    through which slit the object went,
    this changes the result (with or without interference).

    Details about the double slit experiment you can find at Wikipedia.

    The interference is often explained by waves,
    but the subsequent deletion of information with the quantum eraser
    remains difficult.

    All the information from start to finish (or destinations)
    (spatial and temporal) seems to have an impact on the result.

    This is taken into account in the quantum layer model:

    All possible paths to possible goals arise.
    Here two open slits allow other ways than one
    and information on paths or quantum erasers other than without.
    Double slit and quantum erasers can thus be depicted with the model.

    2. Entanglement and EPR phenomenon

    Entangled particles / objects seem to transfer timelessly certain information
    and to show especially “spooky long-range effects”.
    On the other hand, this information must not be targeted, but only random,
    otherwise this would contradict the theory of relativity.
    We imagine a source of photons, that sends entangled photons
    left and right to polarization filters Pl with angle wl and Pr with angle wr,
    behind each polarization filter is a detection screen Nl and Nr.

    According to the quantum layer model, invisible, virtual photons move
    on all possible paths to the screens and are mirrored there in inverse time.

    In order to reach the detection screen Nl, the virtual photons have to pass the polarization filter Pl, so they have to assume the polarization angle wl.
    They also have this on their time-inverse return to the start.
    There it goes (virtually) on the second route to the right, but you have already wl.
    Those who reach the right measurement screen
    behave as with angle wl which meets wr (this corresponds to the observation).
    At the start, only those photons can be selected as real.

    The information on wl is transmitted in inverse time,
    but since it is only in level k for virtual particles,
    it cannot be read out at the start or finish (in level k + 1).

    Clearly recognizable: Even without explicit mention of waves
    the quantum level model is a non-local model (e.g. time reversal).
    And not all components are real
    (e.g. the invisible virtual particles of possibility)

    Bell's inequality demands something similar,
    which may no longer apply as an indirect proof is used
    and according to layer logic those proofs mostly are not valid ...

    Now I would like to take a different speculative and more philosophical approach:

    Mind and body can also be explained in terms of layers.

    There are mainly monistic and dualistic approaches to mind-body.
    In the monistic approach (“all body / matter”) I always have been disturbed
    by the differences between body and mind (keyword qualia problem,
    what are sensations?).

    In dualism, the interaction between mind and body is difficult,
    and not easy to explain either is for example, how mind and body come together
    during reproduction.

    As an extension of Planton's allegory of the cave, a third approach can also be considered:

    Imagine, (source) objects are carried past us,
    of which we can only see two kinds of shadows on the cave wall,
    Body (shadow) and mind (shadow) like two sides of a coin.

    Using the layer theory, the source object would have the finite layer k
    the properties of a physical body
    and in the infinite level the properties of a mind / consciousness.

    (The "source object" itself is something third besides body and mind
    and outside the levels, so to speak the “core of the coin”).

    The layers can therefore explain different properties for the same (source) objects
    and thus bring together dualism (different levels) and monism (a source object).

    As with Plato, the actual changes and interactions take place
    at source object level,
    while we perceive them as "shadow games and interactions"
    (on the body and mind layers) (an illusion).

    After the fog around the layers has cleared a bit
    a new riddle has appeared with the "source objects".

    Whether (or how) my approach to physical interactions
    with random selection and time inversion
    and my approach to mind-body interaction
    with “seeing” selection and time inversion
    can be adapted to this source object step approach,
    I still have to investigate, preferably also in dialogue.

    For the coupling of mind and body and that the body has gravitational effects
    from level infinite there are some "problems":

    Conversely, I had also allowed the mind to act in the physical layer k,
    if he only did what would have been possible there also without him.

    Now it is the gravitational effects between two minds from layer infinity,
    which the body can perceive in stage k, but not change.
    According to the pure layer logic, objects in the layer infinite
    should be blind to one another.
    So how can gravity work from one mind to the other?
    Or how can you perceive your own consciousness?

    The following motto probably helps here:
    Rules are there to be overcome (Laotse, Dalai Lama, Picasso)
    → also the layer rules!

    And finally, the layer logic arose from rule changes.
    So gravity can work between two minds, although both belong
    to the layer of infinity.

    That own consciousness is well perceptible for a mind,
    although both belong to the layer of infinity.

    Foreign feelings and contents of consciousness are probably not perceptible
    for different minds, the original layer rule applies here.

    Overall not a nice solution to the problems that the mind creates
    at the layer of infinity,
    but as a dualist I want to include him in my models as much as possible.
    In my extended quantum level model, I assign gravity to the mind and the three other physical interactions to the body.

    This concept of mind-gravity leads to unexpected concrete conclusions
    about the “invisible” spirits/minds.

    According to this model, the spirit/mind is nothing more than "dark matter",
    i.e. apart from gravity it has no visible overarching / objective properties.

    At layer 0 (the lowest possible layer) the physical part of the body
    in the world is still undetermined.
    In addition, there is the spiritual/mind part in the infinite layer
    (possibly more structured).

    In layer 1, body objects arise and connect with mind objects.
    With this coupling, the spirit objects and the body objects must gravitationally fit together,
    even if only the mind objects have gravity.
    (And probably the spirit objects are earlier than the body objects).

    Therefore there is a certain structural equality of mind and body
    at the quantum / atomic level.

    Our visible physical body is thus made by a structurally identical spirit body
    (from dark matter) accompanied.

    Whether the coupling of mind and body objects will ever be resolved
    at the quantum level,(e.g. in black holes) is not known to me.

    In the event of death, this (being resolved) probably applies
    to the level of the body and the nervous system,
    but probably not at the quantum level.

    During the creation of new life via egg cells and the formation of DNA
    parts are separated from the body (probably also from the mind),
    but the basic coupling on the quantum level remains.

    How a consciousness develops from a nervous system with a coupled mind,
    I hardly understand yet.

    Despite all the structural similarity to the nervous system,
    the mind is likely to have somewhat different functions as the body
    (keyword consciousness, feelings, qualia).

    The free dark matter (i.e. mind without a coupled body) does not seem
    to attack the existing mind-body couplings.
    One possible explanation would be that these links could only be established in layer 1.
    Another would be that the dark matter is either structured too finely or too coarsely
    for couplings with body objects.

    So much for the time being about mind - body and layer logic.

    Yours
    Trestone
  • Trestone
    56
    Hello,

    admittedly, the model seems a bit awkward and complicated.

    But that both also applied to the models of Ptolomew and Copernicus.

    Whether the two new ideas apply
    ("There are finite layers and an infinite layer",
    "Gravitation belongs to the mind"),
    must remain open for the time being.


    Yours
    Trestone
  • MAYAEL
    54
    What exactly is the point/goal of this?
  • Trestone
    56
    Hello MAYAEL,

    I want to show, that the new logic (layer logic) that I have developed
    can also be used to develop new models for other questions
    like parts of quantum physics or body and mind and gravitation.

    As I know well layer logic but not physics,
    I hope to discuss here, if my models are possible
    or what has to be changed.

    Yours
    Trestone
  • MAYAEL
    54
    but can any of this be observed in real life?
  • Trestone
    56
    Hello MAYAEL,

    layer logic and the ideas given here are theories.

    It might take some years (probably some 100 years) until some of them can be proven by experiments
    (I already gave hints how it could be done with computers for layer logic,
    but it is not easy).

    So for me the value of the ideas is to give alternative and uncommon theories and play with them,
    but the theories should be possible within the new frame of layer logic.

    Yours
    Trestone
  • Trestone
    56
    Hello,

    if we also include gravity in the quantum layer model,
    then the following could happen:

    A particle travels on several possible paths from the start to possible destinations,
    at the same time it is invisible as a virtual particle of possibility and on the same layer
    like at the start.

    Gravitation acts on all of these particles.

    Then the virtual particles of possibility return inverse in time to the start.

    At the start the situation is the same as it was before the swarming out
    the particle of possibility, only that now (hidden) information
    about the possible goals are available.

    In particular, the gravitational effects are canceled again.

    After selecting a target particle (or a target package if several paths are possible),
    this particle receives a higher level and becomes real.

    Gravitation then also acts for this particle and its path (and only for this).

    But whether that fits with current quantum gravitational research
    I can not judge.

    Yours
    Trestone
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