I was watching my cat ignore its shadow today and got to thinking: they must be aware of their own shadows on some level, otherwise they would be freaking out about this black thing on the ground right next to them that's always moving around. This would apply to insects too, I guess. So, what's going on? Do their minds categorize shadows as "uninteresting"? But some shadows are very interesting (e.g., the shadow of a hunter stalking you). — RogueAI

I don't normally notice my shadow, but I wouldn't say I'm ignoring it. How is what your cat was doing different from that?

Kittens and dogs and no doubt most animals learn what's interesting and what isn't. I had a wooden carving of a bear about the size of a dog. When my (old, wise, and experienced in the ways of the world) cat first saw it she froze. After a long motionless minute, she moved to it slowly and with the greatest circumspection. Arriving in front of it she examined it. Then she raised a tentative paw, gesturing with it. Then at lightening speed whapped it on the nose, once. twice, and a couple of more times, getting of course no response. She gazed at it for another long moment, with a fluff of her tail recovered all dignity, moved on and never gave it another look.

Animals aren't as dumb as we look.

Yes, "ignoring" implies a choice in the matter. Technically, my cat was not reacting to her shadow. Like Tim said, it's probably a learned response.

Yes, "ignoring" implies a choice in the matter. Technically, my cat was not reacting to her shadow. Like Tim said, it's probably a learned response. — RogueAI

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying there is a difference between choosing to ignore the shadow and learning to ignore the shadow? Can you flesh this out for me a bit?

To ignore something requires you to notice it in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised if animals just don't even notice the things in their visual field that don't represent threats or food, like the a cloud moving across the sky. The cloud probably never even rises to the level of conscious awareness. Some unconscious filtering mechanism probably is at work. This could be either learned or instinctual.

The other alternative is that the animal is constantly noticing it's shadow and choosing to ignore it, which would require some higher-level thinking.

My difficulty might be in finding the distinction between "notice in the first place" and "learning." I can relate to learning something once and then never again making a choice to ignore it, like my shadow. I don't think I've every made the choice to ignore my shadow. I just do. In fact, I have to choose to notice it, unless it infringes upon my ability to see something (like when I'm looking for the shine of lithic scatter). In this regard, I think there is no difference between your cat and me. We observed once or twice in the formative years and then forgot about it unless and until it got in the way. What am I missing?

Maybe the cat doesn't contemplate how shadows are made (blocking sun, moon or other light), which might require higher thinking, but I can't relate to the idea of choosing to ignore my shadow. It's like choosing to ignore voluntary or involuntary bodily functions that have become rote.

I guess you're right. I don't make a conscious effort to ignore my shadow. It just sort of gets filtered out of my conscious awareness.

(like when I'm looking for the shine of lithic scatter). — James Riley

Um, just for the heck of it, why would you look for that? And what is it? Definitions online don't seem to easily fit your usage.

m, just for the heck of it, why would you look for that? And what is it? Definitions online don't seem to easily fit your usage. — tim wood

In archaeology, lithics are tools made of rock, and the scatter is the little flakes that fly off in the process of manufacture. They usually have a little more shine than surrounding, un-worked rock. Morning and evening are the best time to look. It's good for locating camps, living or butchering locations.

Huh! That does match. And that seems mighty interesting to me. You've either evolved or devolved to rock/tool-hunting? I'm a little surprised if you're substituting for your own judgment on an appropriate camp site that of people not less and possibly a lot more than a thousand years dead.

Though I've seen worked arrow points in museums. And there is something about them.

You've either evolved or devolved to rock/tool-hunting? I'm a little surprised if you're substituting for your own judgment on an appropriate camp site that of people not less and possibly a lot more than a thousand years dead. — tim wood

I'm really a paleo guy, but I do like the archeo too. The land has changed a lot since the Clovis folks were poking around here. Trying to establish erosive from depositional areas, and rates, is difficult for a lay person like me. I've probably held several hundred Clovis points. The problem is, 10k years of other Indians successively picked them up and reworked them into the little jobs we find today. :sad: :smile: Reduce, recycle, reuse.

I have experienced the magic of time, although not with an arrow point. I imagine that magic is scrawled and written all over the west for those who can read it. In the east it is obscured and hidden by all kinds of things and all kinds of events, large and small, recent, past, and long past.

Forested areas and the hand of man can certainly hide or destroy a lot.

In either place, I would substitute their judgement for mine (or anyone on the planet today) on anything that has anything to do with hunting, gathering and living on this land, camp sites, etc. As the young girls say today "I'm jelly."

I was watching my cat ignore its shadow today and got to thinking: they must be aware of their own shadows on some level, otherwise they would be freaking out about this black thing on the ground right next to them that's always moving around. This would apply to insects too, I guess. So, what's going on? Do their minds categorize shadows as "uninteresting"? — RogueAI

They are clearly aware of some shadows, sometimes, and not of others, at other times. If a shadow suddenly appears, the cat becomes interested or even scared. Although it's hard to say whether the cat noticed only the shadow, or also heard the being that cast the shadow. Cats aren't very visual types, but they focus more on hearing and smelling.

Having observed our cats, I think it's similar as with the image in the mirror: the cat first takes an interest in it, and after a while, when it proves harmless or uninteresting, ignores it.

I offer my rabbit three pellets in one hand and two in the other. It always goes for the hand with three pellets first. My rabbit can count! :cool:

In my humble opinion, a very deep question.

First, what is a shadow? There are many ways to answer this question but that which seems to be of immediate importance for animals is it indicates a presence of a threat (predator)/ opportunity (prey). If we simply take into account how valuable being sensitive to any signs of threat/opportunity can be to survival, we should expect animals to be in the know about shadows; after all? they're like red flags which animals need to keep a close watch on (either you get a meal or you become one). Evolution simply wouldn't allow animals that didn't process/aren't aware of shadows to live long enough to scoodelypoop.

That said, it bears mentioning that even if an animal is aware of shadows, it doesn't necessarily imply that such an animal has an edge over animals that are, in a sense, blind to shadows. The reason? Shadows are, in all cases, right where the object that casts the shadow are i.e. both a predator and its shadow are in close proximity. This means the warning that a shadow of a predator provides may come too late for prey - they predator is literally just a leap or a paw-swipe away.

However, for predators, shadows don't have a downside for they indicate the prey are close enough to make a kill.

In short, prey animals, for the reasons given above, maybe less aware of shadows (threats) - aware/unaware, its too late to make a run for it with the result that the next generation will fail to inherit the trait if it evolves at all - but predators maybe fully cognizant of shadows (opportunities) and the generations that follow will inherit that trait.

More can be said but my head hurts from all that thinking.

Not all shadows are cast by animals. Rocks cast shadows. So do trees. The distinguishing factor is movement; not so much that which is moving (object or shadow).

I do know that deer and elk move around more on still days and nights, and hole up more when the wind is blowing. It could be just the movement of clouds and vegetation itself, or it could be the movement of all the shadows.