My point is that you are not specific enough. You'll need to define more precisely what you are doing. Including some calculations of the processing time and memory demands. — Carlo Roosen

My apologies for not specifying the technicalities. I am not a comsci major or a programmer. Sorry for wasting your time if you didn't find anything of interest in this thread.

Now it sounds a bit like "could we use a generator to stop a truck instead of normal breaks, and reuse the energy?" - probably yes, but why aren't they doing it everywhere? — Carlo Roosen

It is actually called KERS.

LLM's for instance require a randomizer. In fact, after reading this remark I'll change "My point is that you are not specific enough." to "You seem to be dreaming" — Carlo Roosen

Sure, I'll go back to dreaming in that case. Thanks for your input.

As others might fathom, this is going to be an Obama 2.0 president.

Sure, I'll try and present my considerations or reason for asking this deep question. Since I lack the skills, I'll just start out by saying that since logic has been progressing in a manner where one does not know whether that logic or a system of logic is universal, then assuming that logical monism is true, then one can think that it should be possible to find a hermetic/tautological language.

But, to really reduce what I have to say or rephrase it as a question, are the implications of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems somehow restricting us or preventing us from arriving at an answer? Is it that because of his theorems, scientists don't believe that P=NP? I'm only saying this because it is thought that for P=NP to be proven it would have to be a formally complete and consistent complexity class.

Maybe you can do something with this conjecturing about processing. My own thoughts are to utilize the very same LLM's to do this with, once they are sophisticated enough...

Maybe OpenAI could potentially do this. Doesn't seem like their methodology wouldn't be applicable to object oriented languages in terms of coding... They already do some coding tasks at the moment. Who knows, seems trivial, so I wouldn't be surprised if they actually attempt to do this. Seems like a lot of money could be involved.

Kudos.

Next step is to work it out in a table, a diagram or in pseudocode, with the number of bits for each step. Maybe you found some magical loophole, but I believe you made a logical error somewhere. I am unable to give more feedback without more details. — Carlo Roosen

I think you are alluding to the problem of discovering relations in the information of the mapping of programming code processed on the CPU. I actually think inference models via data analytics could do this. You could mine quite a lot of relations from the data stream in my mind.

Also, please comment on the rest of my answer because you leave a lot of things unclear. Do you want to capture the full memory state of a computer at every clock cycle? If not, what do you select and based on what? — Carlo Roosen

I am not really adept enough to comment on the rest. But, yes you could retain the memory state of the logicality of various programming languages to discover complexity of the code to the data presenting the logicality of the respective languages.

Anyway, thanks.

[edit] Reading your post again, you want to store the complete state? But in a 1kB memory, there are 2^(1kB) possible states. So in any new state, you want to search your harddisk to see if you have done this already? This explodes. — Carlo Roosen

Yes, it's possible to do so; but, would it not be easier to map the logical operators for the possible states in computability they could exist in - instead of the readout to the disk of the states? This is done according to the logic of the programming language itself with respect to the mapping of computability, instead of mathematical or informational states...

Did anyone catch THIS video?

What is the first effect? And you’re welcome, even though my intent wasn’t as honorable as a white knight’s. — praxis

The first effect is the attitude of dropping one's concern over controlling things out of one's control. If it hasn't been pointed out, that requires quite a lot of processing power on your brain. Eventually, one would be able to emote this attitude as apatheia or a passionless state.

Assuming what I'm saying is true, a person has his or her emotions to deal with, which arise sometimes due to events or are internally hard to regulate.

Talking about the term "regulate", the body has its own way of doing that called, homeostasis. To maintain homeostasis in terms of one's psychology is something everyone wants; but, there's no clear way of doing it. Buddhists think that desire is the root of evil for an individual.

Just my two cents.

Aren't you alluding instead to "desire"? I mean, it's written on the wall that everyone desires, right? Aristotle with his virtue ethics actually described how a man should feel his, and about, his emotions, in some sense of saying so.

Hello, nice to see a computer scientist on the forum. Would you care to comment on some of my thoughts about computing in this thread?

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15411/post-turing-processing

I just reinterpreted everything after learning more about Frege, and some other thoughts of mine about logical monism or unificationism in logic.

No one is reading the what is in the Lounge, let alone the forum to make that a concern, unless you want to fall into a conspiracy trap. Maybe it could involve the cyber intelligence wing of Scientology. — Nils Loc

Shh, I used to work there. :cool:

No, the theaters are full of Tom Cruise's cum. Mental masturbation is my thing.

Hollywood has some wild talent and pretty zealous workers there. I can't imagine in being such an environment.

Stoicism doesn't teach apathy: it teaches equanimity. That's a common misconception. — Bob Ross

Regarding which, I think that the affect stoic teaching has on one's behavior is accurately, even in ancient times, one of a dispassionate stance, which they called apatheia. I believe that this would be where Aristotelian virtue ethics somewhat distanced itself from stoic teachings or vice versa.

Old or new the ultimate goal seems to be wellbeing, which might be characterized as sane and calm. — praxis

Thanks for backing me up here; but, my intent was to point at the secondary effect, or a real 'affect' stoicism engenders; that of one becoming calm and more sober. I mean, the Alcoholics Anonymous prayer, derived from Stoic philosophy, is actually mentioned in this thread.

'Inventing terms' resonates. Richard Rorty often talked about philsophy as being an ongoing activity of "finding new vocabularies." In his view, you get philosophical progress from the creation of new ways of speaking and thinking through which we identify and tackle new problems and experiences, rather than through discovering objective truths. The search for a final vocabulary that represents reality "as it is" was a misguided one. Or something like that. — Tom Storm

Interesting. I haven't done a detailed study of Frege, the father of logicism, but with what you said in mind he makes a lot more sense. If the purpose of philosophy or science is to discover how new vocabularies make sense within the current vein of philosophy or sciences' framework, then sure, philosophy makes sense in that aspect.

A while ago, I don't recall if this was on the old PF, and I have a knack for facts; but, your sister or one of your family members works or worked at Hollywood. Is Col W. F. Gahng in contact with how she could be adversarialy treated by such things said?

I don't think one needs a philosophy or lifestyle to want drugs or be mentally ill. — Moliere

Both of which would suck, I imagine.

However, it is worth noting that you must self-reflect on what you should be doing with your life (rationally) and then utilize any irrational emotions you have as fuel (if applicable) to achieve it: so, technically, the best approach is not always to eradicate the pathos. — Bob Ross

Yes, this can be said about the stoic practice of negative visualization. I have practiced it quite a lot, which had led me to apathy. The stoic conception of apathy has been called mistaken in English form, more in close line with a passionless state, leading to tranquility. I find it difficult to understand how the stoic sage would have to become somewhat apathetic in every regard to be labeled a sage.

If you are struggling to implement Stoic principles in your life, then try reading (and re-reading) the meditations and implement a robust lifestyle-structure to build self-discipline and self-integrity. Then move from continence to temperance. — Bob Ross

Strange, I went from the Meditations to the Enchiridion, and then to On Desire, and then towards understanding CBT in how it trains the mind to think rationally or less irrationally. To be honest, I haven't really focused on the cardinal virtues of stoicism, as every stoic appeared to me as an individual.

Hey I’m also wrestling with all this. I often feel - actually I know - I’ve been corrupted by the society I’ve been born into. — Wayfarer

Well, I've asked this many times before; but, the hippies got some of this right, yet veered off into hedonism, as a virtue. It then sabotaged anything they had to say to take this route.

It’s a constant battle - the original meaning of jihad was spiritual struggle, although that’s been corrupted too. — Wayfarer

Well, we do live in a democratic world at the moment, yet the whole world is concerned about such terror watchlist flagging terms. I don't know how things went so bad after 9/11.

Anyway, there's definitely a link between modern society and mental well-being. Hence the appeal of stoicism, paleo food, and all the other 'return to the ancients' kinds of movements, but it takes more than reading about it. — Wayfarer

Assuredly. I guess this goes into the realm of practicing philosophy; but, go ahead and find a practicing philosopher. As you said in another thread, there is definitely a revival of ancient stoicism and philosophy. A lot of people are talking about, for sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_punk is the modern phenomena I associate with ancient cynic philosophy. — Moliere

Yes, well, I guess if one sifts the chaff for the hay, then the cynics had something to say, as would the people you linked. The rest just want drugs or are mentally ill.

From my reading, I can't but see a modern day young German guy being those types. Punk not dead, antifa and all that.

Indifference to heat and cold and to physical discomfort is not something that is acquired by thinking about it. That's one reason that modern culture is inimical to stoicism - it has accustomed us to previously unheard-of levels of pleasure and comfort and encourages only the pursuit of consumption. — Wayfarer

As others have said, it seems a little too tortuous to do that. A drill sergeant couldn't motivate me to work out.

I agree with the whole online identity thing as pretty nasty stuff. A lot of the magic behind advertising is to appeal to your pleasure center of the brain, thus distracting you or at worse running you on a hedonic treadmill. YouTube seems like a harmless activity; but, there's a lot of programming going on with behaviorizing you to respond to cue's.

But seriously, is there any end to consumption? Can one draw a line hard and fast over how illustrious wants can be detrimental to a person?

So the goal is an attitude of indifference. How does one get to that goal? — Leontiskos

Well, most stoics believed in the practice of stoic logic, much of which has been lost to history.

Is it just by practicing indifference? Or is there some better way to get there? — Leontiskos

To the first, I believe that practicing indifference is something that one has to desire or will into the way one behaves or thinks. Stoics could be ranked as some of the most sensitive and in-tune people with human nature. Otherwise we never would have heard of Epictetus, or the ancient logician, Chrysippus... and then there's Seneca, who kind of had everything a person could desire.

To the second question, there is actually a school of philosophy called 'cynicism', which stoics admired and thought, the cynics, made a shortcut to virtue. I am not so confident to become a cynic as of soon.

What is your approach to achieving your Stoic goals? Presumably it doesn't occur just automatically. — Leontiskos

Well if you're interested in my take on pop-psychology, I think that stoicism has appealed to many as a refuge where they can regenerate or escape from the world through a attitude of indifference. This has been my goal for many years, and I don't want to speak for others; but, it may have been something of interest to others. What I aim at is a better understanding why I am not happy with my own progress, which I won't ask others to diagnose; but, perhaps see if what I am saying might be true. So, the habituation of studying stoicism and practicing it, as one would praise God every Sunday, to the stoic being, maintaining an attitude of indifference.

It's important to note that the first investors of bitcoin were the people who mined the easy to mine bitcoin. All you could expect from them and everyone else was to hold until the price increases for bitcoin. Further, the more hype you added when it first came out, the higher the demand for mining bitcoins. Its sort of complicated to see; but, over time as the price rises and difficulty of discovery is drastically higher you would expect less supply and higher demand given how popular it became.

Just some observations of the bitcoin market.

It seems important to add this HBO documentary about scientology, and there are plenty of others like it.

I'm sure you will enjoy it. I mean, hey, its HBO talking about scientology... :monkey:

Sorry for dumping this in this fabulous thread; but, from a secret tape I heard Tom Cruises' deepest regret was not being picked for the role in American Psycho. It really was or always had to be his film.

A whole world just for him wouldn't be enough.

The man invented the word "cum". Need we say more? — Baden

No, let's go even further and imagine, as Hollywood does, that in the possible future where women want his DNA in themselves they just might reach out for it, depending on the circumstances or situation.

Yes, I knew that. And it is not even the most frightening thing about him. — Baden

Do you know that Hollywood made a whole movie about it for Tom Cruise and the church of scientology? You couldn't pornographize a life any harder.

@Michael can back this up with some consultation with Anonymous.

Tom Cruise. — Baden

Do you know, and there is a secret about scientologists... Tom Cruise wants to live out there in space with Xenu, their god-figure. He even sequenced his DNA for the encounter one day with their god-figure. I'm serious about this, don't ask me how I know.

... The home today is a kind of Platonic cave, the moral ruin of an archeological humanity. It is only by revolutionizing the way in which we give form and content to the experience of home that we will manage once again to make the world a place where common shared happiness is possible. — E. Coccia, The Philosophy of the Home, (2024)

I'd like to add to this the proverbial British saying that my home is my castle.

I don't think there could be many places one could call home. It seems that without money a person is quite home-less. So, anyway I thought that might be important to add.

Are you saying that the question of "philosophy proper" or "a proper way of doing philosophy" can receive an answer that is non-philosophical or outside philosophy? — J

Sure, I see why not.

Or would any answer assume, or reveal, a particular conception of what philosophy is? — J

I'm no authority, so have at it.

Like this thread. — Banno

I'm glad you like this thread.

As regards Hadot, I agree that it seems challenging, but I'm a subscriber to both Medium and Substack, and they're teeming with threads dedicated to revivifying ancient philosophy in the modern world. — Wayfarer

It seems like psychologists, instead of philosophers, are the go-to for the majority of whatever you want to call it, people. I once heard a priest talk about how awful this is and yada-yada.

There's that one guy, Jordan Peterson who seems like some guru on life matters.

I know only that Anglophone philosophy has produced at once the most copious and most frequently fruitless literature on the so-called mind-body problem. — Hart, David Bentley. All Things Are Full of Gods: The Mysteries of Mind and Life (pp. 18-19). Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.

I take it as analytic philosophers recognizing that the mind-body problem is not one which philosophy should grapple with anymore, and is best left to the scientist to elucidate such matters in terms of what can be said intelligibly.

Regarding Hadot, I don't think you can disagree with him; but, how is one to practice philosophy in such a manner? We are a longs way from the days of ancient philosophy.

I don't think the practice of philosophy nowadays is some sort of handmaiden or blacksmith for the sciences and fields it has created, as philosophy has its own purpose. Although it is often regarded by postmodernists and pragmatists that philosophy could be seen as a 'tool'.

I still find the refuge of thinking philosophically as a form of therapy, still.

It would be interesting to ask the analytic school, as to what remainder of pure philosophy, as what can be called "ethics", has to offer.

I do not associate it with 'purity' as I tend to think of this word (when applied to humans) as having a Christian association - as in purity culture. As a secularist, I see no use for such a frame. — Tom Storm

Yes, well... The Christian and philosophical concept of 'purity' seems to be at play in this topic, as you say. I also think that from the philosophical concept of purity, per Locke's tabula rasa, there's quite a lot of concern to create a world where innocence can flourish without impediment. Regarding censorship and exposure, the US once banned Brave New World by Huxley. There's also the point to be made about how cautious we are about allowing what we deem as potentially harmful various substances like alcohol or drugs. I'm sure there is more to be said about this...