Matriarchy and Patriarchy are created out of feminine and masculine qualities, not gender (although obviously there is correlation there.) — TheMadMan

I've never thought of it that way before. You're right.

I thought this thread on THIS forum would have a little higher level of discourse on the subject. — Christoffer

As I noted in my last post, it is standard operating procedure to tag people who disagree with you as misogynist and racist.

You didn't answer my questions about your attitude towards violent looters and rioters.

Male feminism is bullshit? If that's the case it's just divisive and pigeon holing all men inti a category of inherently non-feminist in values. Or mysognistic by virtue of being a man. Doesn't seem fair or rational. — Benj96

No, no. I understand the ideology. Any man who doesn't toe the party line is misogynistic just like anyone who doesn't support Israel is anti-semitic, anyone who doesn't support the Black Lives Matter movement is racist, and anyone who doesn't agree with you politically is a fascist.

I understand the behavior fully — Christoffer

Looking back over your posts in this thread, I don't see that all. Everything you've written is couched in the language of ideological feminism. That allows you to judge without thinking.

Do you approve of that behavior? Do you respect them based on that behavior? Again, what is it that you are defending here? — Christoffer

I feel sympathy for men who are socially lost and feel left out, rejected. That's an experience I can easily understand. I've felt it myself. Most of these men live normal, non-violent lives and don't offend your sensitivities. Do you condemn looters and rioters who burn their neighborhoods in respond to their resentments? I'll ask you - Do you approve of their behavior? Do you respect them based on that behavior?

None. I look forward to the day that men are properly humbled by the clout of women - their intelligence, their strength and resolve - strong fierce mothers, exceptional wives, admirable daughters. Feminity has always moderated the testosterone fuelled recklessness of man. And it was always undervalued, considered weak for that fact. — Benj96

This sensitive-new-age-guy thing you've got going on is creepy. The strong, stubborn, competent women I know think it's creepy too.

Understand it, and act accordingly. I believe in hearing people out and applying reasoning to show them the result of their claims/beliefs. — Benj96

Your clear ignorance about the people you're talking about puts the lie to this.

The most manly of men, in my opinion, are those that willingly submit to the power of the feminine. — Benj96

Strong women don't want to hang around with men who "willingly submit to the power of the feminine." They recognize how disrespectful the male feminist bullshit really is. Grownup women want to hang around with grownup men.

What respect should we give misogynist and racist people? — Christoffer

That's not the question at hand here. The correct question is "What respect should we give people whose behavior we don't approve of or understand?"

When I log on in the morning I check the Bannings thread just to make sure I'm still a member. Phew.

I don't respect misogynists or those who defend them. — 180 Proof

Oh...wait... Oh!! I get it.

Thank you for the compliment! — ChatteringMonkey

God, you really have drunk that progressive kool-aid. — ChatteringMonkey

Why don't we just put them down, like the males of breeding animals we have no use for? Wouldn't that be a major step towards progressive utopia! — ChatteringMonkey

But ultimately the problem is not totally solvable by acceptable means I think, there will always be those who will miss out because they are less attractive/charismatic/rich than others. A healthy society doesn't solve the frustrated desires of those. Historically this has always been a problem. — ChatteringMonkey

society has decided that women are the victims, so it's okay to marginalize incel men... they are evil because they are man, and so technically part of the patriarchy (eventhough they have no power at all and are considered the lowest of the low). — ChatteringMonkey

Political and historical insight leavened with a little compassion. Thank you.

Because misogynists are becoming more odious and numerous and have no desire to modify their own behaviour. Under patriarchal law, they could - and in some cultures, still can - be as abusive as they want and still own a woman, or more than one. If women have a choice of mates and are free to leave bad ones, men have to make some accommodation. The ones who know how to do that make out like bunnies and the odious ones are jealous. — Vera Mont

We've recognized how most of these gender norms are, frankly, pure bullshit. Mostly formed by institutions to control society, mostly formed by the privileged to keep power. — Christoffer

In 180 Proof's utopia, we'd castrate and/or lobotomize incels. Or maybe, less invasively, heavily medicate the shits with opiods & sedatives. — 180 Proof

I'm feeling a bit queasy. That happens when I read knee-jerk, pseudo-historical, pseudo-psychological, pseudo-political claptrap hatred for men. I'll cut Vera Mont some slack - Women lacking respect for men is run-of-the-mill. When men do it, it's just pitiful.

A man without a woman is like a bully without a victim. — unenlightened

Someone, maybe here on forum, pointed out that if you ask Chat GPT to make a joke about men, it has no problem but if you ask it to tell a joke about women, you get a lecture about not being disrespectful. Now, why do you think this came to mind now?

The next day they'll all be in camps learning how not to complain. — Varnaj42

Ahem...

I don't have much substantive to offer here, but I wanted to compliment you on a well written and clear OP. You obviously put a lot of thought and effort into it.

You won't find a receptive audience for religious dogma here on the forum. Most of the members are atheists or at least non-religious. Perhaps it would help a bit if you provided a source or context for your beliefs rather than just proclaiming them as fact.

↪AntonioP Sounds like a standard libertarian, anti-governmental screed.
— Tom Storm

And this sounds like an ad hominem fallacy. — AntonioP

You clearly don't know what "ad hominem" means. Wikipedia:

Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

It's clear that @Tom Storm's comment was about your argument and not about you.

You have been so thoroughly indoctrinated — AntonioP

Now this is an ad hominem argument. Ironic.

If someone says they were born in the 'wrong body' and identify as male (born sex as female) do you have some reflections regarding an approach we might take? — Tom Storm

Is this something you've ever had to deal with in your work?

I don't see any realistic alternative to political authority. There are billions of people living close together. There are no longer many places to run off to if you don't like the way things are going. Just about everywhere you go there is another political authority waiting.

What does Rose suggest?

I'm going to put some vocabulary that is backed by the transgender community below — Philosophim

I don't have any trouble with what you've written, although I am confused by your claim that it is backed by the transgender community. The way the situation is usually presented is that the transgender community believes that transgender people who are biologically male should be legally and socially treated and named as women with the reverse being true for those who are biologically female. Is that not correct? Conflicts are reported between people who want transgender women to be able to compete against biological females in sports and those who don't. People have been fired because they refused to call biological males by female pronouns.

Don't get over-excited auld yin! — universeness

I understand. You never have been one to speak out about what's fair and what's not.

I think Mr Schop1 has been able to sneak in a few new antinatalist threads since the move the mods made to put them all under 1 title. — universeness

In the words of Winston Churchill, "Eat it raw, fuzz nuts."

The moderators have relegated all anti-natalism posts to a single thread. That includes anti-anti-natalism threads.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13310/antinatalism-arguments/p1

It is a pity. — javi2541997

Alas, fiction is not my medium.

Wow Clarky, please don't take this the wrong way but I'm frankly shocked that you're a Mieville fan. Not out of any disrespect, but simply because I don't recall discussing any fiction with you, compiled with the fact that you seem to philosophically oppose the short story contests. — Noble Dust

I'm surprised that you're surprised. I talk about fiction fairly often on the forum, including in this thread. You and I discussed "Ubik" just a while ago. I have nothing philosophical against the short story contests, I'm just not interested in either reading or writing short stories. I read short stories a lot when I was younger - mostly science fiction. I somehow have lost my taste for them. I'm retired. I read a lot. Mostly fiction, but also science and philosophy - primarily Taoist philosophy.

I wasn't going to mention it, but I just started reading "The Possessed" by Dostoyevsky. Also known as "Devils" or "Demons." I'm not sure if I'll finish it, but I wanted to read something by him after I couldn't get through "Crime and Punishment." After 10 pages I couldn't stop laughing. I read "Notes from the Underground" in college, but I can't remember it much. I don't do well with bleak and tedious books with unlikeable characters. That's the kind @Baden likes.

As for the TV show, I would have a look, but I must read the book first, otherwise, I spoil a good novel reading opportunity. — Manuel

"The City and the City" is at heart a police procedural, so I think it's much more accessible than most of Mielville's books. It's also probably the most filmable. I can't imagine what a movie or TV show about New Crobuzon, the city where "Perdidio Street Station" takes place, would look like. Actually, maybe I could. It would be like the bar scene from "Star Wars" as written by Charles Dickens.

Perdido Street Station by China Miéville — Manuel

I really like China Miéville. "Railsea" is one of my favorite books and "The City and the City" is great. I also enjoyed "Embassytown" and "Kraken." He writes so well. He uses uncommon words without ever seeming pedantic. I can't imagine reading one of his books except on Kindle where I can look things up right away.

I started reading "Perdido Street Station" before, but got lost about a third of the way through. The writing is dense and visual. The world is so odd. That's true of all his books but not to the same extent. I gave up, but you have inspired me to go at it again. That partly because I don't feel like I should try to read "The Scar" or "Iron Council" till I do. I'm about 30 pages in now. The writing is wonderful, the world is bleak and amazing, and I am determined.

Have you seen the television adaptation of "The City and the City?" I generally don't want to watch movies or TV shows of books I like, but I'm curious.

Nothing works. I'm not "treating" them at all; I'm not communicating with them; there is not a snowball's chance in hell of resolving these conflicts. — Vera Mont

Well, then. I guess there's nothing else to say.

Does the depth dimension go to infinity in either or both directions? — Art48

The phenomenon you call depth is generally known as scale. There is speculation that there is a minimum scale, called Planck scale, with specific dimensions of time, energy, length. Here's some information:

In particle physics and physical cosmology, Planck units are a set of units of measurement defined exclusively in terms of four universal physical constants, in such a manner that these physical constants take on the numerical value of 1 when expressed in terms of these units. Originally proposed in 1899 by German physicist Max Planck, these units are a system of natural units because their definition is based on properties of nature, more specifically the properties of free space, rather than a choice of prototype object. They are relevant in research on unified theories such as quantum gravity.

The term Planck scale refers to quantities of space, time, energy and other units that are similar in magnitude to corresponding Planck units. This region may be characterized by particle energies of around 1019 GeV or 109 J, time intervals of around 10−43 s and lengths of around 10−35 m (approximately the energy-equivalent of the Planck mass, the Planck time and the Planck length, respectively). At the Planck scale, the predictions of the Standard Model, quantum field theory and general relativity are not expected to apply, and quantum effects of gravity are expected to dominate. The best-known example is represented by the conditions in the first 10−43 seconds of our universe after the Big Bang, approximately 13.8 billion years ago. — Wikipedia - Planck Units

I don't have much to offer on this, but this is related to a subject that @apokrisis has talked about - biosemiosis.

Biosemiotics (from the Greek βίος bios, "life" and σημειωτικός sēmeiōtikos, "observant of signs") is a field of semiotics and biology that studies the prelinguistic meaning-making, biological interpretation processes, production of signs and codes and communication processes in the biological realm.

Biosemiotics integrates the findings of biology and semiotics and proposes a paradigmatic shift in the scientific view of life, in which semiosis (sign process, including meaning and interpretation) is one of its immanent and intrinsic features. — Wikipedia - Biosemiosis

None of my ancestors ever owned another human being and the longest period I spent in the United States was January, 1993. — Vera Mont

I wasn't aware you thought these problems are only relevant in the US. On the other hand, that's not even relevant. You are contributing to the problem just by the comments you make here. Trying to resolve conflict with large groups of people while treating them contempt doesn't work, except, I guess, in war.

I may be the worst, but I'm never passionate. — Vera Mont

I don't think you're the worst, but then I don't think Trump supporters are either. I think you are both equally responsible for the mess we find ourselves in.

If the sane people have no interest - more to the point, if they feel bereft of agency - they leave the field wide open to fanatics, lunatics and criminals. — Vera Mont

You obviously feel very strongly about this. One might even say you are full of passionate intensity.

What I said prior was the average person has no interest in governance or politics. How did you come up with the opposite given the stats? — L'éléphant

I was surprised by how high the percentages are. Beyond that, I don't think the activities shown are a good measure of interest. My wife has a strong interest in these types of issues and she hasn't done any of them. I do too, and the only one I've done is contribute to a campaign. I don't think we are unusual in that regard.

He argues that they’re either both morally permissible despite society finding sexual assault far more distasteful and violative than murder or they’re both impermissible. — Captain Homicide

I'm not even sure what "morally permissible" means in this context. Does it mean that in my judgment I shouldn't do it, or that no one should do it? Does it mean it should be illegal? I'm a libertarian when it comes to this sort of thing. It certainly shouldn't be illegal to depict any of these things. I'd also say it's not morally impermissible for someone to perform these kinds of acts in video games, but if I knew you were, it would likely change my opinion of you. I never have played video games much and not at all since my kids were in school. When I did, I sometimes killed people without remorse. I don't think I could bring myself to commit rape or pedophilia.

We evolved to get excited in critical situations. Stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline are released. Our blood pressure and heart rate increase. We start breathing faster. Even our blood flow changes. — praxis

Yes, that's known as the fight or flight response, not the critical thinking response.

Nuff said.

The original Star Trek TV shows contrasted with the Next Generation Star Trek TV shows is an excellent example of what the change in education did to our culture. Captain Kirk is the John Wayne of outer space and Picard is the "Group Think" generation. — Athena

I don't know whether to laugh at your use of Star Trek as a sign of cultural disintegration or...well... laugh even harder at your selection of Kirk over Picard. I wish @TimeLine were here.

Gentlemen, don't fight here, this is the war room. — fdrake

Just wanted you to know I did recognize and appreciate your reference.

Worse, self righteous. — DingoJones

Ah, yes. I believe you sang that song before:

Lol, well come on. He NEVER misses an opportunity to express his self righteous condemnation of other posters... — DingoJones

Well, geez, I have to be true to my calling.

How mean spirited of both of you! — universeness

I guess you don't understand the meaning of the phrase.

critical thinking could be handy in critical (fearful or otherwise emotional) situations — praxis

Your two uses of "critical" have different meanings. Critical situations require calm to address effectively. Tea is not required, though.