That despite the emulation, Muhammad is not Allah. — Eleonora

Yes, so what? Everything Muhammad does is completely approved by Allah, so you can not use the excuse that he is human.

Yes. It is important to not confuse the divinity of Allah with the humanity of Muhammad. Somewhere in there we have to find our own stand. — Eleonora

Mohammed is Allahs messenger and the perfect man to be emulated. Mohammeds behaviour is normative for muslim men. So where do you go from there?

We've hunted as a species since we could draw and had wet markets for millenia. The problem isn't wet markets. — Benkei

Who is we? I have never been to a wet market like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGTIs9fvkUA

The technical rebound will happen. Now consumption is dramatically reduced. Travel is banned. The downturn is a free fall. Shelter in place will have it's consequences. Once you stop it, there is the technical rebound. Even if you are midst of the worst economic depression of all time and that rebound doesn't correct anything. — ssu

I do not know how it will work out. But There is a gigantic collective debt bubble in the finance system that has to be be deflated. Different economists are predicting different scenarios. But it is pretty clear that Corona was just the trigger for a bigger financial event. Once the shelter in place stops, you do not go back as if nothing had happened. Do you really want to re-construct all those supply chains from China that proven to dangerous? Who is going to pay for the trillions that the US government (and others) just magically created out of nowhere to give to people and companies went idle during the Corona months? Who? Money is just supposed to exchange medium... what are you exchanging for 2 trillions based on simply a promise, backed by what?
Some economists are predicting a return to the gold standard. I hope they are right. In the long term that will be good. But it would definitely not be easy or painless.

People like to associate that sort of thing with Christianity but i would like them to find one contradiction in the whole Bible and i'll debate that with them. — christian2017

I am not a bible-thumper, but is the Old Testament not fundamentally the violent, war-like god of the Jews, and the New Testament the pacifist god of Jesus? Now reverse that and say that the OT overrides the NT. And yeah, mix the whole thing together and order chapters not chronologically but according to length. Then you get something more like the Koran.

It wouldn't surprise me. Perhaps i'll read more of my Koran today. — christian2017

Before you do that, you should find a source and check the chronological order of the Suras. Otherwise, the whole thing makes absolutely zero sense.

I'll google that or attempt to google what you are getting at. I was aware that they venerate both Mecca and Medina. — christian2017

Do you want to dive into that rabbit hole? Fundamentally, the Mekka verses (written in Mekka, where Mohammud was weak) are tolerant and peaceful, and the Medina verses (written in Medina, where Mohammud became an ever more brutal ruler) are intolerant and violent. In the Koran they are all mixed together, but the (later) Medina verses override the (earlier) Mekka verses. So muslim propagandists can quote wonderfully tolerant verses, knowing that they are invalidated by later Medina verses. Brilliant, isn´t it?
I could go on for pages..... if you take the red pill, you will discover more than you imagine.

Hope Britons never forget that Boris and Cummings' initial strategy of culling the herd — Baden

"Culling the herd"?? Can you point to a reference where or Cummings (whoever that is) said that??

Then you should clarify that.
So, who in the Republican Senate and Congress are you ready to Guillotine? — boethius

Probably a whole bunch. For starters, everyone who signed off on those, what, 800 pages of pork that they all squeezed into the Corona emergency fund. Anyone who signed off on that atrocity, no matter what party, deserves your bonfire or the French solution.

Likewise, anyone in the Democratic party you would not Guillotine? — boethius

I am not a walking dictionary, but probably all of them, with the exception of Tulsi Gabbard.

Cop out. — StreetlightX

Why? I didn´t agree with your bonfire idea because they were ignorant about Corona. Everybody was. I hate these traitorous globalists because they are so destructive.

You're ready to Guillotine Trump? — boethius

No, he is not really part of the swamp. Not that he is perfect, but he vastly preferrable to globalist cabale.

i wasn't aware of that detail, but i am aware of other things in the Koran. I own a copy and it is mostly a trite and shallow book, atleast the parts i read. — christian2017

You need a bit of background information to see how truly dangerous and deceptive it is. For example, are you aware of the arrangement of the verses, the difference between the Mekka and Medina verses and the concept of abrogation (Naskh)? If not, reading the thing is just exercise in confusion.

thats fair. — christian2017

By the way, you do realize why the cross is so offensive to islam? The reason is that the Koran says Jesus was NOT crucified (sura 4-157), so claiming he was means blasphemy. So, no display of crosses, where islam is taken seriously.

(Again, now consider this is the same god as the Christian one.... err, never mind, don´t want to belabour the point again)

Don't see why we can't throw all of them into a firepit. — StreetlightX

Guillotine would work for me too. Less greenhouse gases.

Nancy Peolosi, February 24:
"We want to be vigilant about what might be on the horizon — what is out there in other places. We want to be careful how we deal with it (coronavirus). But we do want to say to people, come to Chinatown. Here we are, again, careful, safe, and come join us.”
(https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/02/24/coronavirus-speaker-house-nancy-pelosi-tours-san-franciscos-chinatown/)
,,,,nevermind. Bash Orangeman!

Joe Biden, February 1:
(reacting to Trumps travel restrictions)
"This is no time for xenophobia and fearmongering!"
(http://archive.vn/ReRyP)
....nevermind. Bash Orangeman!

Mohomad was a sexual predator and i have muslim holy books that back this up. As you said above he was also a historical war lord. The Koran encourages muslim crusades. — christian2017

Err.... that would be Crescendates, not Crusades. But I would simply stick with Jihad, which actually is an ongoing effort in islamic doctrine, not a rare and unique event like the crusades.

Well, what will happen is the technical rebound at some stage: when the first pandemic wave is over, when the infections and deaths decrease and when people come out after the "all clear, but use caution" sign is given. — ssu

It is not just about some businesses re-opening. The longer the shut-down, the more businesses will simply not exist, the more loans will have to be called, which are backed up by nothing than more promises, and the more physical supply chains will be destroyed. What you are looking at is an entire financial system baseed on mutual promises collapsing. And the government creating more money out of nothing that is not backed by physical assets does not help.... Germany tried that in the Weimar Republic, as did Zimbabwe.

I do not claim to be able to predict how this complex mess will resolve, but it will not simply just return to normal. In an ideal world, we might return to national currencies backed by gold, and cut down the globalist tricksters? Lets hope.

She is also essentially saying Allah and the hebrew/christian God are linked but somehow one is an extension of the other. (she used an example so it could go either way in her mind considering this is a hypothetical example) — christian2017

We are still talking past each other. My point is really not difficult. Here for the last time (I hope):
In the Koran, Allah states very clearly that he a) loves the muslims and b) hates the Jews, the Christians, and the Polytheists.

If you say Allah = Yaweh, that means that the Jews and Christians are also muslims.

From that follows that Allah a) loves the muslims and b) hates the muslims.

In what universe does that make sense?

My simply observation here was that description refers to two different god figures.

If there is one good thing about the Corona it is that it puts a damper on the wild rush into globalism. I am old enough to remember a time before China became the world`s factory with its slave labour and environmental armaggedon, and I remember life was not bad then. There IS life without the CCP.

So, he's trying to blame the Chinese, but not through any coherent argument, either because he simply can't formulate a coherent argument or because he knows that just leads to emphasizing that a lot of time has passed since the Chinese cover-up (so, if he complains about the Chinese actions in December, it's not really a good argument as he did nothing in January and February). — boethius

You do realize that in January and February, both the media and policical opponents were downplaying the Corona thread too, or don´t you? In February, Nancy Pelosi was asking people to gather en masse in Chinatown, the mayor of Firenze was asking to "hug a Chinese", and Joe Biden and the media was lambasting Trump for instituting a travel ban from China. Racist, you know?

So basically you are demanding a 20/20 foresight from Trump only, but from nobody else.

Really, is it so hard to fact-check a little instead of running with the derangement syndrome?

Consider for a moment that Allah was a beer and JHWH is life. He drinks his beer, then gives his life to JHWH. JHWH, drunk on himself, would naturally make a lot of assumptions. Of course Allah would be in on this, but would that make him schizophrenic? — Eleonora

I have no clue what you are trying to say, and neither, I suspect, do you.

The state of New York overtook Germany in the number of infections (and deaths) as it had done earlier the United Kingdom. Compared by population, the UK is three times larger and Germany four times larger than New York State. Only China, Spain and Italy have more infections, if we look at the official numbers. — ssu

Clearly this relates to the way you count, and the number of tests, so the statistics can not be easily compared. As you know, Germany is testing like crazy, so of course, they are finding more infections, with the result that the fatality rate becomes low, as most cases are mild. Also, Germany does not automatically record a "Corona death" if is a case of co-morbidity like Italy does.

About the China numbers, you might was well watch a Hollywood movie as believe the CCP. They are fiction. Take the numbers of HK and Taiwan, they are reliable.

It is not apples and oranges. The God of Abraham is the same God in all three religions. He is a jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing God. The Bible is salted with statements like this — Athena

OK, you keep repeating that, but you are not paying attention to what I am saying.
I am not arguing if the guy is " jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing" or not. That is NOT the point.
I am making the simply logical observation that you can not be love and hate your followers at the same time, unless you are schizophrenic. That is simply a logical statement --- is that really so hard to understand?

When did people even start building churches? I think historically it is quite a new thing.

Nowhere in the link you provided does it say a word about Democrat v. Republican voters. Can you provide a Rasmussen quote for non-subscribers? — ZzzoneiroCosm

You can see a snapshot of the relevant question on the Rasmussen Twatter page, unless the censors have removed it already:
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1244240182930550784

Anyways, just as a reminder: You didn't manage to defend any of your other supposed "lies" either. — Echarmion

Your sophistry does not turn lies into true statements.

On a related note, I am just reading that opinion research shows that only democratic voters believe that most reporters are simply trying to report the news in a non-biased fashion.

I am NOT surprised....

https://t.co/NDMKltU8Su

Yes, he did. As an answer to a different question, talking about a different group. After making the "both sides" statement. Which of course I would not know, had I not read the transcript. You're flailing around now. Your initial claim was CNN was lying. Now it's "well but Trump also said". Makes you look pretty weak. — Echarmion

The "both sides" refers to pro and anti statue. And I don´t know how much clearer you can get than "and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists".

I would have made a snarky remark about your reading comprehension, but after watching a few of Dr. Karlyn Borysenko video, I am starting to understand the TDS sufferers better. With your distorted filter, you really do see a different world than those of us who are not afflicted. Hope you get better sometime.

Fine, but now we have wet markets that are known vectors/originators for mass pandemics. What action should other countries and China take against these, if anything at all? Is that enough impetus to tell another culture what to do? Is there ever an impetus for this? Chinese medicinal beliefs have been going on for generations. It is part of the culture, tradition, and religion. — schopenhauer1

Stop supporting China financially by stopping to move our production there. Tax the hell out of Chinese exports until the CCP follows basic ethics. In others, de-coupling. Another policy where orangeman is fundamentally correct. None of this means interfering internally with China, these are all decisions that we can make.

I did read the transcript. Just before he makes the comment, he talks about "the left" attacking "the other group". It's a matter of interpretation what he was talking about, but it certainly makes sense to assume that "both sides" here means "the left" and "the other side" fighting on that particular day. Your interpretation isn't fact. It's not a lie just because you disagree. — Echarmion

He said:
"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."

So clearly you did not not read the transcript. Well, maybe making fake claims if par for the course for believers of the fake media. Anyway, I am not your babysitter. Do your own homework. Just stop lying.

That idea might be good or bad though. It provides for maximum toleration, but at the cost of people in the foreign communities being affected. — schopenhauer1

I tend to agree with that. That is why I wrote "discourage" and not "prohibit". Concrete example is Afghanistan, where the Americans have been babysitting an unstable government for what, 20 years now. When they leave, the Taliban will introduce literal Shariah. I say the Americans should leave nevertheless.

This is a separate argument. This is about the toleration of cultural practices simply due to the fact that it is someone else's tradition and it should be respected, is the correct view if that cultural practice (even inadvertently) leads to mass harm. — schopenhauer1

I would fundamentally agree with that.... unless you want to bring the alien cultural practises into your own society.
Of course there are *some* cultural practises you might want to discourage everywhere, such as cannibalism in New Guinea or hanging of homosexuals in Shariah countries.

I see no problems and only benefits in exchanging cultural ideas. Why would that be a negative? The only exchanges that would be bad would ones that lead to harm for the individual or society (like hate groups or groups that oppress other ones for example). That would be a bad cultural exchange. — schopenhauer1

I see no problems with with "exchanging" cultural ideas either. My comment was in remark to mass immigration of non-integrating people, and cultural relativism. This is the context in which I see "multiculturalism" bandied about most often. If you are just talking about exchanging ideas, sure, that is fine.

What is hell? You`d have to define it first. And which one? Muslim hell? Buddhist hell? Old testamentarian hell?

So we are living in an age of multiculturalism. Most would agree that this is a good thing. — schopenhauer1

Not me. I have always said that the idea of "multiculturalism" is simply capitulation in the effort to maintain modern democracy. Tribalism and modernism do not go together. And the slogan "diversity is our strength" certainly deserves a kind of Nobel prize for being the dumbest one ever conceived.

So there was a group of protesters supporting the removal and a group against, and the neo-nazis just happened to be in the neighborhood attending a home decor tiki torch convention or something? — praxis

Stop wasting our time and read the transcript.

I said they lie about Trump, and mischaracterise Trump. To use your term, they spread falsehoods. Thats what I interjected to discuss.
Your stance on Trump supporters is noted, but I am not a Trump supporter. I dont even live in the US. — DingoJones

I do not either, by the way, but the Trump hatred is pretty much the same among the Western globalist media. On a related note, a Rasmussen poll just showed that only democratic voters believe that most reporters are simply trying to report the news in a non-biased fashion. This is so not surprising!

Nowhere in that video does it say that only CNN is allowed to read WikiLeaks. Is what the person is saying a lie? How about you go ahead and prove it? Or are you the liar here? — Echarmion

He says it is illegal for unwashed to read Wikileaks. But he at CNN can.

That video actually proves the protest wasn't staged. Only a specific view on the protest was created.

If you had seen the original raw footage (removed by Youtube) you would see the Hollywood production that CNN staged, complete with directions and pre-printed placards. Still the link I posted show some of it.

Sorry, dude, but that's just like, your opinion. Opinions aren't facts, and having one isn't lying. You got nothing here.

Nope, not an opinion. If you read the transcript, you clearly see that Trump was talking about good people on both sides of the monumet debate, not on both sides of the neonazi / antineonazi fights. This is a blatant lie by CNN, and one of the most despiccable ones.

Show me the report that said that Trump recommended drinking fish tank cleaner. Or the report saying the guy did exactly what Trump recommended. It's all just a narrative in your head.

An honest title would have been "2 idiots die from drinking fish tank cleaner". Instead of that, the fake media turned that into something like "people die from following Trumps Corona medicine recommendation" (not verbatim, but different variations of that). Trump had said that Hydroxychloroquinine could be a "game changer", which it is. He NEVER said people should drink fish tank desinfectant contining Chloroquininesulpate, with "NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION" printed on the package.

I see I misinterpreted your post. — Athena

Well, thank you. You should always try to read before rushing to the keyboard.

You said Allah hates us, not Muslims hate us. Sure God hates us so much He intended to destroy all of humanity in a flood. He hates us so much some believe He created a hell to torment us for eternity. Or He hates us so much He unleashed Satan on earth to torment us. I really try to be respectful, but those stories of Allah/God are not explanations of reality that I can respect. — Athena

Apples and oranges. God (the Christian god) does not specifically hate the followers of other religions and names them. That characteristic is specific to Allah and makes him fundamentally different from the other two religions that apologists like always want to compare it with.
And that is why I keep explaining the claim it is the same religion is so self-contradictory.

So is there really civilization without Christianity? Be it by happenstance or a blessing by God. Being a Christian is about following Jesus and this is it. — Eleonora

Well, if you twist the definition enough, you can claim anything. Maybe you want to argue this with your local muslim cleric... as you know, according to islamic doctrine, we are all born muslim, only we kuffar refuse to acknowledge that.... which is why Allah hates us.

Michael was referring to the original definition of "fake news" - falsehoods that get widely circulated. — Relativist

That is exactly what I was referring to also.

Trump uses the term to refer to unfavorable coverage. Avoid conflating the two, and you could then have productive conversations. If CNN is spreading actual falsehoods, that's something I want to know about. I — Relativist

You can find that very esily all the time, if you compare CNN coverage with the original footage of what they cover. Of course, if you stay inside the CNN/BBC/Guardian/NYT echo chamber, you always hear the same opinion narrative.

Why is it not lying? Is it ok for politicians to lie, some of the time or all the time? Do some politicians lie more than others? — Echarmion

All politicians spout political hyperbole. If you count that as "lying", they all lie all the time. Now lies I that I am concerned about are lies that have catastrophic results, such as the lie that the Bengazi jihadis were a popular, democratic uprising against Gaddafi. For examople.

"The claim that only CNN is allowed to read Wikileaks — Nobeernolife
Where and when did CNN use those exact words?" — Echarmion

Surprisingly, it is still on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQllunHssEk
You might want to check before rushing to the keyboard

staged muslim peace demonstrations — Nobeernolife
That just seems like political hyperbole, if it happened, which I doubt. — Echarmion

The original complete clip has been removed by Youtube and Twitter (what a surprise), but you can still find parts of it. Watch it tell us how truthful CNN is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g62_UMiv6wY

"good people" Charleston lie — Nobeernolife
Trump's words are a matter of public record. Not a lie. — Echarmion

He said "good people on both sides" about the pro/anti statue protesters, and NOT about the neonazis. Very clearly. Which you would know if you actually read the transcript, instead of listening to the fake media lies. The fake media narrative is a total lie, and one of the most shameful ones.

"fish tank cleaner as miracle cure" lie?
The thing they reported on happened, so based on your standard, not a lie. — Echarmion

No, it did NOT. Trump NEVER recommended drinking fish tank cleaner, like these two idiots did.
The misrepresentation by the Guardian et al is patently fake news.